The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.

[bbum]

Why? Because people already know where to find better stuff.

so what if they know. its a challenge pre-kunark, they still have to earn what they aquire, it will still be just as hardcore as back inthe day, not a grind fest where you twink yourself in bazaar along the way

do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?

dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..

[Aquelin]

Originally Posted by bbum

do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?

dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..

Those words alone seal your idiocy. WR is filled with type of content rarely ever seen by ANY EQEmu server (or most MMORPGs, mind you). Wiz has done an incredible job on the server, and it shines by the amazing reputation the server has gained. No mindlessly put together classic EQ server will/could ever compare to it's immensity, unless the database is 100% hand-crafted by a diehard whose experience exceeds all others.

Hats off to you, Wiz, great article. Hopefully most will read this and understand that many features on the EMU will simply not be weaved together in order to ever create a (successful) classic EQ server.

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by bbum

so what if they know. its a challenge pre-kunark, they still have to earn what they aquire, it will still be just as hardcore as back inthe day, not a grind fest where you twink yourself in bazaar along the way

do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?

dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..

In fact, I do. Else there would be a hugely successful "classic" server that had stolen all WR's playerbase, would it not? WR has survived for two years. No classic server has even lived a tenth of that.

Your views are based on personal beliefs. Mine are based on rational logic.

Logic generally tends to win out.

[Dave987]

Interesting topic, and in my opinion, everyone is right here - this is a matter of opinion.

EQ Classic could be recreated, and, if you really believe it, the players will try hard to get the 1337 wurmy , and collapse when they see a wizard running round in full magic gear. It could happen, with hard work, it is a possibility.

Then there is the other side of the argument. Players have now seen +30 to all stats, +20 to all resists, +200 HP / Mana gear - so why would they bother trying to get a +3 wis +10 hp gear on an EQ Classic server ? What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?

It's all opinion and players views guys . As Raex said, you're both right, there is no wrong. This is all opinion.

I'm not too sure what I think...

[KhaN]

Thanks to Wiz, he said in one post what im trying to explain since a long moment, i think that english as native language helped him~
Anyway, i have to say that my opinion is different from Wiz on one point, the fact that you have to create a totally new world to offer to players a new experience.
For me, EverQuest offer a good basic lore (background, NPC, zones), yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.

I have to admit i never logged in Winter Roar, so i wont speak about it, but generally, peoples that develop a new background/lore for their RPG totally screw it and never use it at 100%, this lore they created is only here to say you have to kill some mobs, or do this quest, nothing that really involve you in the game, this is true for non-commercial games as well as commercial games.

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by KhaN

Thanks to Wiz, he said in one post what im trying to explain since a long moment, i think that english as native language helped him~
Anyway, i have to say that my opinion is different from Wiz on one point, the fact that you have to create a totally new world to offer to players a new experience.
For me, EverQuest offer a good basic lore (background, NPC, zones), yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.

I have to admit i never logged in Winter Roar, so i wont speak about it, but generally, peoples that develop a new background/lore for their RPG totally screw it and never use it at 100%, this lore they created is only here to say you have to kill some mobs, or do this quest, nothing that really involve you in the game, this is true for non-commercial games as well as commercial games.

You don't have to create a new world to make something new and enjoyable. You just have to make something new and enjoyable.

And english is my second language.

[KhaN]

And english is my second language.

You english is very good for a second language, i bet you dont have a secretary to do your translations because you are too lazy ? :/

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by KhaN

You english is very good for a second language, i bet you dont have a secretary to do your translations because you are too lazy ? :/

Hah. :P

I speak english almost as well as I speak my native language, swedish.

[KhaN]

Darn, Wiz is swedish, now i know why you rocks ... i wish im a swedish sometimes, so i would be able to make kick ass demos

... what happens ...
... someone set us the bomb,
we get signal ...
.... what ?
Main screen turn on,
Its you ...
How are you gentleman,
All your base are belong to us

[ryder911]

haha whats up with people saying wurmslayer is classic!?! Wurmslayer was soo kurnark.

And I must agree, with wiz on this view. I thought a EQclassic would be good, but after reading the article he wrote, it did put things in a better view for me. Playing it again would be as fun as playing it for the first time.

[Charmy]

And english is my second language.

Wow who would have known...

In the great words of Bruce Willis ---

"Lady i only speak two languagues, English and Bad English!."

anyway, i agree with wiz, you don't need new lore, just new content, however creating/adding new lore does help, somthing that SOE never did right, hehe kinda like their huge screw up with the story behind EQ2 where the sleeper destroyed luclin and rampaged over norrath destroying the cities, execpt... the sleeper was killed on live. soo hmmm....

I don't really know where i am going with this so i will just shut up.... thanks again have a good day..

Long live the jews.

[ryder911]

"

the story behind EQ2 where the sleeper destroyed luclin and rampaged over norrath destroying the cities, execpt... the sleeper was killed on live. soo hmmm....

I don't really know where i am going with this so i will just shut up.... thanks again have a good day..

Long live the jews.

I know where your going with it. If he was killed on live there would be no way he could ravage the world, and by the making that the lore that just means that they wont allow people to play apart in the lore.

[Scorpious2k]

Originally Posted by Wiz

Logic generally tends to win out.

Someone has never been married....

[bbum]

In fact, I do. Else there would be a hugely successful "classic" server that had stolen all WR's playerbase, would it not? WR has survived for two years. No classic server has even lived a tenth of that.

no classic server has ever even been playable yet =/

i guess its just my opinion, but i dont think you can make a game better than the original eq, just by making your own npcs, quests, renaming zones and changing zone connection. i did solo a warrior to 9 on your server and did some quests and started a ton, and talked to like every npc, but the whole time it was just a sorry shadow of eq, and i was a halfling in erudin for some reason.

Players have now seen +30 to all stats, +20 to all resists, +200 HP / Mana gear - so why would they bother trying to get a +3 wis +10 hp gear on an EQ Classic server ?

uh.. because on a classic server the +3 wsi and +10hp is uber and just as much an acomplisment..

yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.

xpansions screwd the lore?? the LORE!?! i think you under estimate the how ufcked up eqlive is

What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?

you just explained the point.

And I must agree, with wiz on this view. I thought a EQclassic would be good, but after reading the article he wrote, it did put things in a better view for me. Playing it again would be as fun as playing it for the first time.

im going to assume that was a typo and you ment WOULDNT be as good as the first time. ok, lets see, it wouldnt be as fun as the first time, why not? if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.

we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..

i dont see what the point of this thread is.. an old world server is to hard to make? an old world server wont have enuf content?? it wouldnt be as fun as back in the day?? eqemu doesnt have the tools to remake the real everquest?? whats the point wiz??

[Wiz]

i dont see what the point of this thread is.. an old world server is to hard to make? an old world server wont have enuf content?? it wouldnt be as fun as back in the day?? eqemu doesnt have the tools to remake the real everquest?? whats the point wiz??

If you don't get the point, you probably should re-read the initial post. But very well, I will take it again.

The dream of EQclassic, and the frenzy over EQclassic that many people have shown is most of all an empty dream. A server that is purely EQclassic will not hold any interest because EQclassic does not contain a worthwhile high end game and in reality, far from everyone will enjoy getting derv rings in nro again, once the novelty of "old school" wears off. If you want to make a successful server, you will need to do something else than just rip off an existing game. I don't think WR is more fun than EQlive was the first time around, but EQlive mostly was fun because it was the first time around. AC2 is pretty similar to what EQlive was back then. All casual-play directed, no endgame. AC2 flopped. EQclassic was not the godly, beat-it-all game you imagine.

I provided a good amount of logical backing for this point. You didn't even bother to try and debunk them, you just brought up WR and tried to attack it instead, whereas I had not even mentioned or tried to promote my own server. If you can explain how you will keep the interest of a playerbase limited to PoHate, PoFear, PoAir and Vox/Nagafen, feel free to do so. But constantly stating "do you think u can make a better game than EQclassic? FOOL" is not arguing, it's blind belief. If you're going to question my arguing, we could take a look at your own initial post.

you really seem to think eq classic was good because we were new to it. thats not what were trying to bring back. were trying to bring back 'the vision' tm, get rid of awfull eqlive team content etc.

Unfortunately, because of the current client versions and little game perks - you won't. The Vision's primary and absolutely most golden rule was -You do not know-. You do not know what your skills are, what your mana are, if that red mob is doable or way too deep red, what actually spawns in that room in that dungeon, what will happen if you follow through the dialogue of that Highkeep NPC. It was the enemy of little floating expression marks that defined "Hey! You! I have a quest! Hello! I only spawn in this world to stand around and give you a quest! I have no realistical or story-enchancing existance!" cue WoW and Wayfarer's Brotherhood. You can't relive the vision with in-game maps. You can't relive the vision in a world that is explored in to its very tiniest component.

why cant we relive the old days? you dont think it will be a challenge? all content been spit thru? well lvl 20 used to be a challenge and it can be again.. whens the last time you tried to take on black burrow in a group of newbs in cloth and rusty weapons?

Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. Noone said you couldn't, I only said why in the end, it's not going to work out, and won't last beyond the initial "oh my god I died to tranix darkpaw this is so cool"

why cant magic items be leet again?

why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again

why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?

Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. The items in themselves do not have some magical fun-value that will make your gaming experience great because they well, have shitty stats.

i dont know why you cant relive the old days, but i sure can if the servers there. theres plenty of content you havent expierenced in the old world. you and probly most people who posted here never did any quests besides the newbie quest armor and their epic. maybe cb belts if they were a elf lol. play a new race and talk to your guildleader, walk through your city, talk to a random npc, complete a random quest and have the outcome be worth your time and the reward not trivialized by another dev teams content .. circle of elements changes npcs names, keywords, and even adds twists to the most popular quests so there not over done- and if a kunark came out it would have to be totaly reworked to not trivialize content like it did.

Again, primarily an appeal to nostalgia. Makes one half-valid point, that lots of people didn't play back then, but it's moot if you just go take a look-see at www.allakhazam.com. You change NPC names and keywords? That's a good start, but you're going to need to do more than that to keep interest at level 50.

theres no point in the custom servers, original eq content is gold, you cant fuck with it, i mean, when you play WR, you dont give a shit about the lore or setting and dont really care why we all start in erudin or thurg, because its still just erudin and thurg were still playing eq, but the zone connections are fuxd.

Completely unbacked and unnecessary attack that carries the argumental value of "my wang is bigger than yours" without even pulling down your pants to give a demonstration. Return when you can explain why EQclassic was such an awesomealiciousoverthetop experience without appeals to tradition, emotion, or nostalgia.

GL on trying to make something better than pre-kunark eq...

Fairly unrelated and unbacked glorification.

You provided one-half assed display of logic throughout your entire initial post. The rest was emotional mumbo jumbo.