Items requiring components

[Zuesrooster]

in the spells.cpp changed line 863 from

if(!bard_song_mode && IsClient()) {

to

if(!bard_song_mode && IsClient() && slot != USE_ITEM_SPELL_SLOT) {

I belive no spells from items ever use components.

[Thristam]

I think the necro epic uses tiny coffins to do its summon? i might be wrong on this.

[vales]

There are some 1h blunt (Allin's Mace) and swords (Iris Blade) that have the Rune Effect that require bloodstones and jaspers, to name a few.

Thristram: The necro spell Summon Corpse needs tiny coffins and jade coffins to summon a corpse depending on the summoned corpse level. The epic effects are all passive and clicky DoTs.

[Zuesrooster]

Hrmm, that makes it a little trickier. I did some more research and you are correct there are a total of about 37 items that cast spells that should use regents. Some don't use the regents like Shell Trimmed Bracer. While other items like the two you mentioned as well as others like Diamond Rod do use components. I really couldn't find anything that would determine if it uses components or not. I also noticed that everything in eqemu says it uses components even stuff I remember doesn't like the lev rings. Anyone have any idea?

[vales]

I think to simplify all of the items out there with having spell effects, they just made it so it requires components. Procs like Anger or Time Snap are much easier to implement, though.

You're right about the ring.
Here it is on Lucy and here it is on 13th Floor.

Now I'm confused as well, hehe. I think it's better to just have the items require components for now, unless there's a way to work your way around it. But that would require resubmitting all of the items on 13th floor again. But then again, there are some spells that do levitate without components like Levitation (Shaman). Maybe we can just have it work that way? Uber weapons should require components. I found some people exploiting this and it gets on my nerves. They should be able to afford the components anyway at that level.

But what would happen if one were to proc with a weapon that needs components and you don't have any? Would the rest of their spells "grey out" like they do when you cast a spell without the required component? Can it be a passive "you do not have the required components" message? On retail, you would get that message with the component in parenthesis. "You do not have the required components for this spell (Bloodstone)." Did they change that?

This is getting pretty interesting.

[Zuesrooster]

I did a bit more comparing of items I know that don

[vales]

I think all procs and clickies that require components should require them.

That sounds much better with how you're doing it. What about the procs for weapons? Is the code going to reflect thsi as well? Some weapons are procs and not clickies. But if you do change the code to reflect all items that require components, then will they just have to click the items to cast Rune on their sword?

If the answer is yes, then by all means I agree with it. It's better to have players click items and use a component rather than have them do battle and proc the effect without a component. This way, at least they're using components rather than getting away with a free Rune that procs every other hit. It's not like the mobs in the game drop generous amounts of plat anyway. I'm sure paying 8 plat per peridot wouldn't break their banks.

[Zuesrooster]

NO, I'm saying that the only items that should not require component's are those that are already limited by how many charges of the spell they have. All the items I found that should require components but don't on lucy all had a limited number of charges. All other items that are unlimited click or proc should use components.

[vales]

Ah, ok. That makes more sense. Carry on then. I'm actually anticipating the release.

[EmanonCow]

On live, insta-cast and proc clickies do not consume components.

Clicky items with a casting time do use components.

Possibly charged items don't use components.

Ideally, one would want to be able to pick if a given item used components. This dosen't seem to be all that practical.

[vales]

Originally Posted by EmanonCow

On live, insta-cast and proc clickies do not consume components.

Can you list some items? It would help out instead of telling us that it's "diffrent" from live. Wepons that have procs (i.e. when you're in battle and the weapon procs - not clicking it like the monk epic) like rune do require a component.

Originally Posted by EmanonCow

Clicky items with a casting time do use components.

What about Skyshrine armor? Jaundiced Armor? Or the Eyepatch of Plunder to name a few? Sorry, but you're wrong there. If you could list some items, it would help though.

Originally Posted by EmanonCow

Possibly charged items don't use components.

Not true. Tinkered items usually have charges that run out and can be recharged with a battery and a tinkering box. If you're talking about something along the lines of a Levitation Ring summoned by mages or Stein of Moggok or something, then you're somewhat right.

Originally Posted by EmanonCow

Ideally, one would want to be able to pick if a given item used components. This dosen't seem to be all that practical.

How is someone to choose whether or not an item has charges or not? Are you suggesting to look through 55069 items and make duplicates of every single item that has charges, or should require components when you cast or proc? Uh... no. :p

If you don't like the changes, you can omit them yourself. But so far, I don't really disagree with the way Zuesrooster is doing it. And I do quote him...

items that should not require component's are those that are already limited by how many charges of the spell they have
Levitation Ring, Stein of Moggok, etc. If it has charges, then it won't require a component.

All other items that are unlimited click or proc should use components.
You fight, weapon procs Rune, you use a peridot.
Item you have has a rune effect. You click it, it uses a peridot.

Is there something I missed? I'm sure he's got unlimited clicky for items like the Jaundiced Bone Bracer and stuff already figured out. I could be wrong though. :p But then again, what nuke in the game ever required a component to cast? Hehe.

[EmanonCow]

Originally Posted by vales

Can you list some items? It would help out instead of telling us that it's "diffrent" from live. Wepons that have procs (i.e. when you're in battle and the weapon procs - not clicking it like the monk epic) like rune do require a component.

Not on live they don't.
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=47257
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=83581
Are both currenly high-end items in EQLive. Neither requires a gem to proc Rune IV.

What about Skyshrine armor? Jaundiced Armor? Or the Eyepatch of Plunder to name a few? Sorry, but you're wrong there. If you could list some items, it would help though.

On live,
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=31176
requires a component. It is a clicky item that casts Rune IV, the same as the proc weapons above. It requires a component -- the proc weapons do not.

Not true. Tinkered items usually have charges that run out and can be recharged with a battery and a tinkering box. If you're talking about something along the lines of a Levitation Ring summoned by mages or Stein of Moggok or something, then you're somewhat right.

I said "possibly". It means "this could be true, this could be false" -- I really don't know if chared items use components or not on live. I can't think of the last charged item on live that cast a component requiring spell that I have ever clicked.

All other items that are unlimited click or proc should use components.
You fight, weapon procs Rune, you use a peridot.
Item you have has a rune effect. You click it, it uses a peridot.

This is not consistant with how Live does it. If one doesn't care if it is consistant with how live does it, then my comment isn't useful.

Weapons that proc Rune IV on live do not use a component. Items which have unlimited charges and have a casting time on live and cast a spell that requires a component do require a component.

Items that are charged with a limited number of charges and are casting a spell that normally uses a component... I do not know if they use a component.

Note that in many cases, clicky items cast a different spell than the spells players cast. In order to demonstrate the rules of component consumption on live one way or the other, one really should examine an item parser's results for an item.

For some examples, levitate:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=16465
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=2463

Those are items that read "Levitation", but don't actually cast the player spell "Levitation" -- instead they cast a spell with the same name but with different details (self only and doesn't require a component).

On the other hand, the mage summoned ring:
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=10405
does actually cast the player spell "Levitation". This mage summoned item I believe doesn't require a bat wing as a component.

If it doesn't require a component, I think either the 0 casting time, or the charges, make this item not use components. I am not certain which -- but I suspect the 0 casting time may be sufficient.

I have a vague memory of a Live developer saying that instant casting time item spells (like procs) don't use components.

I appreciate the changes above -- I just though I'd bring some more information to the table.

[vales]

Ah, the insta-cast not requiring components does make sense. I can understand how some items may not require the component, but how can we determine that?

The thing I requested earlier is that even though some high-end items don't require a component, that it's better if they do. If you're level 70 with a Jagged Pureblade, peridots shouldn't be an issue. But in some cases like the Eulogy weapon, I can see how this can get a bit difficult to determine.

The items with charges is another point. I haven't come across any items that had charges and required a component, either.

I want the EMU to be as close to live as possible, but there has to be a way to determine when an item does or doesn't require a component much easier. Maybe I was a bit off on the last comment about the procs and clickies requiring components, though. :p

Thanks for making your well-noted points.

[FirestormXL]

Okok, all this is well and good but where might one be able to edit this Req. of componant on a said item is my question.