Mob difficulty isnt scaling with character

[Cowboy6534]

Mobs in general don't behave like they should. They act as if they are the same level to you no matter what your level is. So say you are lvl 5 and the mob is lvl5. It should hit you like the chart I posted representing live and eqmac. Also that mob if its not undead it should flee at 12% or w/e it is. When the mob is GREEN to you, say you are lvl30 and the mob is lvl5. It should hit you, if it doesnt miss, for 1ish. very rarely does a green mob of that level difference actually hit you for more than that. And it should flee at 20ish% hp not 5 or 6 like they are currently.

My best example would be to take an averaged geared toon at lvl 30 into kurns tower on the first floor. At lvl 30 you should not get aggro from any of the skeletons, but you get aggro right away. Second, they should almost always hit you for 1 at lvl30. most of the time they are hitting you for the same as if you were lvl14.
Hits on eqmac

Hits on live

Hits on a 0.8.0 server


Does anyone know how to fix this?

[Cowboy6534]

All of these were done with an iksar monk no gear all same starting stats. had max defense on the 0.8.0 peq server because i could set the skills. The other servers i didnt have quite max defense for lvl 5. but you can see that its still way worse here.

Here is the tanking data from 0.8.0 peq server 100 spiderlings.

/GU Tanking summary for: Testmitigation --- Total damage: 4510 --- Avg hit: 5 --- Swings: 949 --- Defended: 23 (2.4%) --- Hit: 752 (79.2%) --- Missed: 174 (18.3%) --- Accuracy: 81.2% --- Dodged: 23 (2.4%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Here is the tanking data from live 100 spiderlings.

/GU Tanking summary for: Valkezisa --- Total damage: 2993 --- Avg hit: 3 --- Swings: 1322 --- Defended: 23 (1.7%) --- Hit: 754 (57%) --- Missed: 545 (41.2%) --- Accuracy: 58% --- Dodged: 23 (1.7%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Here is the tanking data from eqmac 60 spiderlings.

/GU Tanking summary for: Osirous --- Total damage: 1033 --- Avg hit: 2 --- Swings: 724 --- Defended: 6 (0.8%) --- Hit: 381 (52.6%) --- Missed: 337 (46.5%) --- Accuracy: 53.1% --- Dodged: 6 (0.8%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

EQMac data. Was only able to get 60 spiders before leveling to 6 and you dont lose exp til 10 on eqmac. I might make another monk and level it to 5 to get the rest but the %'s are fairly close to live /shrug.

[Cowboy6534]

Meant to put this in support:general can someone move this please.

[jsr]

Unfortunately an enormous amount of data would be needed to remodel the formulae, and if adopted it's a significant impact to established servers.

[trevius]

Fleeing is an optional setting for NPCs that can be set in the npc_types table. You can enable or disable it depending on if you want the NPC to flee or not. There are a few flee settings in your rules table that can be adjusted to however you want them. Here are the defaults from the source:

RULE_INT ( Combat, FleeHPRatio, 25)
RULE_INT ( Combat, FleeSnareHPRatio, 11) // HP at which snare will halt movement of a fleeing NPC.
RULE_BOOL ( Combat, FleeIfNotAlone, false) // If false, mobs won't flee if other mobs are in combat with it.

Database settings will override the source defaults, so check your rule_values table settings and adjust as you wish.

I believe skeletons (maybe all undead) will attack you no matter what level you are. This mimics how it works on Live, unless that has been changed. On EQEmu, I think you just set the intelligence below 60 (or something) if you want a KoS NPC to attack players even if they are green/grey cons.

As far as adjusting actual combat damage/hits, that is a bit more complicated. You can adjust multiple stats in the npc_types table to get your parse results closer to Live. Most likely, it would be hard or impossible to make them match Live exactly unless you do source code edits to the combat code itself. Since we do not have the actual formulas for every factor into combat, it is nearly impossible to match Live exactly. Much of the combat code for EQEmu was created by guessing formulas that got as close to the desired results as possible within a reasonable amount of time investment.

If you can find or figure out all of the exact formulas to mimic Live content, then I am sure they can be added to the source. But, without adjustments that are huge improvements toward mimicking Live, it is generally not worth the headache it will cause all server admins as noted by jsr in the above post. The core combat system has had major adjustments to it over the years and each time it requires manually adjusting nearly all content on all servers to balance content out again. This is something that is not well received by server admins due to the huge amount of time it takes to make the adjustments.

[Cowboy6534]

The problem with all of those settings I believe is a result of the mobs not taking into consideration the players level. Mobs flee at different hp percentages based on the players level so just changing the data in the npc table would just make it worse. Not only is it flee percentage and maybe kurns tower is a bad example due to them being undead but the fact that they hit you as if you are the same level or lower level than the mob when in fact you are much higher level means that the problem is not with fleeing or mob damage but actually that the mobs just do not take into consideration what your player level is. Also I have noticed that p99's servers do not have this problem. So obviously nilbog or rogean knows how to fix this.

[chrsschb]

Originally Posted by Cowboy6534

The problem with all of those settings I believe is a result of the mobs not taking into consideration the players level. Mobs flee at different hp percentages based on the players level so just changing the data in the npc table would just make it worse. Not only is it flee percentage and maybe kurns tower is a bad example due to them being undead but the fact that they hit you as if you are the same level or lower level than the mob when in fact you are much higher level means that the problem is not with fleeing or mob damage but actually that the mobs just do not take into consideration what your player level is. Also I have noticed that p99's servers do not have this problem. So obviously nilbog or rogean knows how to fix this.

There's a lot of stuff P99 and SoD admins know how to do that they won't share. Get used to it.

[cavedude]

Fleeing on EQMac is not an exact percentage, and is certainly a range. I spent a ton of time working on another project using EQMac, and found that NPCs will flee at random percentages, even at the same level. The highest percentage I saw was 32%, the lowest was 3%. These are not estimates, I have access to the exact health percentage of the NPC. It is true that health updates play a part in it, but there are several times when I was fighting a NPC with 9% or 10% health and I felt it should have started fleeing. I hit it again, the update took place, and it fled at 3-5%. Then other times, the NPC fled at a high percentage - same level or at least level range. My project only involved NPCs level 10 and under, and my character was in the same level range. One major problem with EQEmu is that NPCs don't seem to flee as often as they do on Live/EQMac. Though, the rules may be able to help that some.

As for combat, my own parses has shown there is a considerable difference between PC Live and EQMac. Basically, on EQMac the NPCs hit you more often and harder at all levels using toons with comparable stats/equipment. Live is what we are emulating, so that is going to be our model.

I will agree that combat doesn't feel exactly right on EQEmu at the lower levels, although it certainly is closer to Live than EQMac which is intended per our mission statement. At the higher levels however, EQEmu is very accurate I feel at least compared to Live. Parses confirm this. So, the problem isn't that NPCs don't take player level into account (they most certainty do) but rather, our formulas do not scale very well at lower levels.

Yes, undead and a few others on Live are still dumb and will attack you regardless of your level if you are KOS. The only problem with EQEmu in that regard is on Live it seems to be there is a chance it can attack, on EQEmu it always does. This problem also effects Threateningly mobs (they should roll to see if they attack you, not just attack like on EQEmu.) Scowling NPCs that are within your level range always attack on EQEmac and Live (although on EQMac there sometimes is a delay for the update to occur) EQEmu is correct in that regard.

[Caryatis]

they should roll to see if they attack you, not just attack like on EQEmu.

They do. I can't remember if they did before I implemented heroic charisma or not but it is in:

aggro.cpp (320)

fv == FACTION_THREATENLY && MakeRandomInt(0,99) < THREATENLY_ARRGO_CHANCE - heroicCHA_mod

edit: Although I guess it depends on what the value of THREATENLY_ARRGO_CHANCE is(too lazy to look it up). But the framework is in for randomness.

[trevius]

Looks like it is 32:

http://code.google.com/p/projecteqem...G=Search+Trunk

WTF is Arrgo? :P

[Caryatis]

For the record, it wasnt me lol. The whole thing is messed up... THREATENLY != threateningly

[Cowboy6534]

Cavedude when you say higher levels do you mean 90 or 60?

As you can see from the charts I posted that mobs hit you for max more often than all others. So is there a way to add something to hit like random int 0-99, when 0-40 hit min, 41-85 hit avg, 86-99 hit max?

With this in place you could put in rules values which percentage ranges you want to hit for min avg and max or just a true false for people that dont want it on and people that do. Just a thought.

[Cowboy6534]

I was thinking more about it and in addition to what I posted above you would need different percentages for different level ranges. Something like

11+ levels would be 75%(to 90%) of the time hit for max
5+ levels 50% of the time hit for max
3+ levels 35% of the time hit for max
EVEN con would be what I posted above
dark blue 10% of the time hit for max
light blue 5% of the time hit for max
green/grey 0% of the time hit for max

[jsr]

The existing formular is far more complicated than that. What you've suggested is to throw away AC, AA's, and other things and instead just use level.

These aren't simple formulas and as Trevius already said, nothing is going to change unless you're able to propose something which makes significant advances towards being live-like. You'd also have to prove this, and that it scales properly across all levels.

If you're prepared to parse and analyse a million or so fights at various levels with various AC values.. That's probably the level of effort you're looking at. (I don't think I'm exaggerating too much )

[Cowboy6534]

no you will still have ac and aa's. AC determines how much you get hit for and not what the mob is going to hit you for. If that was the case then there wouldnt be min and max hit tables in the npc_tables. it goes like this. mob rolls rand int to determine if you get hit for min avg or max. then it checks ac and aas and what not.

Also if you would actually look at the graphs i posted you can see that mobs are hitting for the exact opposite of live. being that they hit for max the majority of the time on eqemulator as opposed to min on live. These were done with a naked character so no extra ac was involved. All had the same starting stats and same class and all were the same level on the same mobs.