View Full Version : The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.
Lately, and in fact, throughout the entire history of EQemulator, I've seen servers pop up that strive to make the classic EQ, the EQ of Vox and Nagafen, the EQ of Short Swords of Ykesha and Flowing Black Silk Sashes, the EQ where a resurrection was about as common as an honest politician. These servers never truly stick around, never truly make it, despite all the people who seem to want nothing more than such a server. In this post, I will try to explain why.
Wanting to go back to EQClassic is a nice dream. But, it is a dream. Like the crack addicts we are often compared to, MMORPG players share one thing in common - we all long back for the thrill of our very first shot.
The experience where everything was new, where danger was around the corner, where you didn't have a handy little backspace map or a spoiler site to tell you what would happen if you killed that evil alligator and retrieved the troll's arm. (BTW, that quest sucked so much. 5 hours work for a piece of rawhide)
But you can't experience the feeling of something new by recreating something old. You won't be getting lost in Neriak, because every merchant is nicely marked out on that map of yours. You won't be getting killed by hill giants, because they will be hardfarmed for cash. You won't stare up in wonder at the Aviak City, because you've seen it all before. And aviak_rook07 really isn't that much more interesting on Tom's EQ Classic than they are in the ghost town of South Karana on live.
Additionally, there is the matter of experience gain and high end incentive. If you really wanted to recreate the original EQlive, you would have to recreate the ardous process of gaining experience, the frequent and penalizing deaths, the bleak corpse runs, the lack of comfortable clicky transporation. And as a server admin, trust me - if players don't get the comforts they are used to after years of noobification in the cuddle-land of Sony's EQ, they will bitch and moan. And the server admin will either give in, or find his server deserted, as people realize how not so incredibly fun it is to spend 12 hours soloing from 10-12 in Northern Desert of Ro, reliving content that has been experienced, chewed down, spat out and dissected to fine pieces by ten spoiler sites. Compared to the first shot, it seems as appealing as a Happy Meal to a Nobel Dinner. And you don't even get a plastic toy.
The server admin who realizes this and increases the experience gain of his server, throws in a few whistles and bells, maybe a PoK, or even Plane of Time (I saw a rather absurd server idea that wanted to be EQlive Classic... except with Plane of Time too. GG tanking Quarm in crafted), will soon find his server full of really bored high levels. They'll go wack Vox (who the server admin must have tweaked down, since gathering a raid 30 players isn't feasible on most servers), they'll kill Nagafen, they'll give the Vox hammer to a pet, they'll go mess around in Plane of Fear.
And then what?
There's no dungeons to explore they can't just read fifty-page essays on instead, detailing out the exact drops, spawn chances, and sexual lives of every NPC in the dungeon. There's no real useful factions to build up. There's no epic quests to do. There's no real reason to start another character, since it'll blow to 50 in no time with the increased experience gain. And at this point, the server admin finds himself with two choices. He can watch the playerbase shrink and drop, or he can bring an entirely new carrot to the playing board. A few more levels, maybe, or a few new places to raid, maybe even Epic quests.
Enter Kunark.
This has been a drawn out post, but I'll close with a simple statement. EQ Classic was wonderful, it was thrilling, it was the childhood of 3D MMORPGs, full of innocence and wonder and myth. But we've grown up. Spoiler sites dissect the myths, tear the illusion down, reveal the man behind the curtain. Trying to remain a child forever is futile. And so is trying to recreate EQ Classic. Make new content. Make a new game. Try to remake the feeling of wonder and exploration. But it can't be done by reviving the pale spectre of the past.
Mongrel
06-30-2004, 09:51 PM
/applause
RexChaos
07-01-2004, 12:17 AM
It's not just EQ CLassic. EQ as a whole is just not thrilling to me any more. I thought it would be great to build my own world and quests etc. In reality, it's all still the same game really. I thought coming to play EQEmu and setting up a server was going to be that "good old days" feeling like when I started playing EQ. I was wrong. Wiz makes a good point. I totally agree, but to me it goes beyond even EQ Classic.
Jezebell
07-01-2004, 01:55 AM
Very well said Wiz. This is so unfortunately true, which is why custom servers are the way to go. :D
BurningDead
07-01-2004, 04:31 AM
almost shed a tear thier very touching and true :D
Sakrateri
07-01-2004, 05:52 AM
Damn you !! dont mess with my reality like that , damnit it IS real I tell you ............crap here come the Fayguards gotta go .....
Charmy
07-01-2004, 07:07 AM
Very Well Said Wiz, and i totally agree, I remember my first eq char was a DE wiz and i remember the first 10 plat i got i thought i was rich =(. lol i still have that newbie longing when i hear the merchant music... but as you said nothing is like that first high you get when you strike down your first skeleton, or when you get your first crit hit/blast, you thought you were the shit, and well maybe you were <shrug>. And really people don't want to start over with nothing, its like inventing a new product that makes you millions of dollars, who is going to want to return to the days in college when you had to buy the 10 for $1 Ramen noodles that you ate 3 times a day.
And with that comes the same problem with custom servers. No one wants to play on a server where they have to start out naked again, fighting lvl 10 mobs and dieing, having to do CR's that most likely get you killed again in the process. Alot of the semi-legit servers are fun in this becuase they supply you with a way to get some newbie gear for free, or maybe a whole test gear set up, which is on one of the LoTR servers i sadly don't remember what one =(, but it was fun.
So whats their solution? Everyone asks to be a GM, Trust me to anyone out there who wants to be a GM becuase either you can't run yoru own server, or you are to lazy to do it, asking on a server and saying you can pop mobs really well doesn't really cut it for more Server Admins. and even more so if they do give you GM status you will soon find that it isn't anything like you imagined, i know when i first became a guide on EQlive i was expecting to get tons of respect from people, getting all the cool guide gear, and showing off by hosting cool events.... but.. fact is, it sucks, all you do is listen to people bitch and moan about shit they are making up about lost gear, you have to give shift reports on every peition you answer, and you aren't even allowed to fight mobs, plus the event list they give you is SOOOOOOO damn boring, that you never want to do them. So all in all, stop asking.. If your really thinking of being a GM on another server than my advice would be to learn a programming language that would be of use to them, otherwise your going to be bored as hell.
Got a bit off topic there sorry, All in all, its sad but true, we all loved the first time we were able to purchase our first full set of spells, but after that it was no longer a challenge you had to meet, but a burden you had to carry every few levels. I Think wiz says it the best, an eqclassic server just can't be done and still retain its fun factor.
(The PoTime in an eqclassic server that is funny. Sounds like the thing I remember hearing about someone wanting to include PoHate, PoSky, and PoFear into plannar progression, as an EQlive mirrior... hmm)
terorist
07-01-2004, 07:49 AM
i miss the ec tunnel where i got my wizzy to 200 int ( back when 200 was the cap) at lvl 30 and i was the absoulte shit. and when i had to stare at my spellbook from lvl 4-30 i think it was. /tear i miss the nk and nro music too :(
Melwin2
07-01-2004, 08:53 AM
Well said.
EQ was good, but only in the sense that we didn't know better.
Very well written Wiz! I can only say that i agree with you 100%.
theres alot of incorrect things being said here, ill try to sort thruogh tthem.
-some people think prekunark was better because we were newbs.. and wiz thinks the point of a classic server is to 'get lost in neriak' and be a newb or something.. being a newb isnt what made pre kunark good
-
But you can't experience the feeling of something new by recreating something old.
The experience where everything was new, where danger was around the corner, where you didn't have a handy little backspace map or a spoiler site to tell you what would happen if you killed that evil alligator and retrieved the troll's arm.
we all long back for the thrill of our very first shot.
you really seem to think eq classic was good because we were new to it. thats not what were trying to bring back. were trying to bring back 'the vision' tm, get rid of awfull eqlive team content etc
why cant we relive the old days? you dont think it will be a challenge? all content been spit thru? well lvl 20 used to be a challenge and it can be again.. whens the last time you tried to take on black burrow in a group of newbs in cloth and rusty weapons?
why cant magic items be leet again?
why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again
why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?
i dont know why you cant relive the old days, but i sure can if the servers there. theres plenty of content you havent expierenced in the old world. you and probly most people who posted here never did any quests besides the newbie quest armor and their epic. maybe cb belts if they were a elf lol. play a new race and talk to your guildleader, walk through your city, talk to a random npc, complete a random quest and have the outcome be worth your time and the reward not trivialized by another dev teams content .. circle of elements changes npcs names, keywords, and even adds twists to the most popular quests so there not over done- and if a kunark came out it would have to be totaly reworked to not trivialize content like it did.
theres no point in the custom servers, original eq content is gold, you cant fuck with it, i mean, when you play WR, you dont give a shit about the lore or setting and dont really care why we all start in erudin or thurg, because its still just erudin and thurg were still playing eq, but the zone connections are fuxd.
GL on trying to make something better than pre-kunark eq...
RexChaos
07-02-2004, 04:52 AM
theres alot of incorrect things being said here, ill try to sort thruogh tthem.
There's one.
Nothing "incorrect" has been said. It's all a matter of opinion really. There is no right or wrong here.
you really seem to think eq classic was good because we were new to it. thats not what were trying to bring back. were trying to bring back 'the vision' tm, get rid of awfull eqlive team content etc
why cant we relive the old days? you dont think it will be a challenge? all content been spit thru? well lvl 20 used to be a challenge and it can be again.. whens the last time you tried to take on black burrow in a group of newbs in cloth and rusty weapons?
why cant magic items be leet again?
why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again
why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?
Why? Because people already know where to find better stuff. And knowing that there is better stuff out there, and knowing how bad the enemy AI is, it's easy to get. Without the unknown EQ really isn't all that great a game. It's a BIG game, but it's just not great in my opinion. I think what Wiz has done is excellent. Making the game unpredictable breathes new life into what had become stale.
i dont know why you cant relive the old days, theres no point in the custom servers, original eq content is gold, you cant fuck with it, i mean, when you play WR, you dont give a shit about the lore or setting and dont really care why we all start in erudin or thurg, because its still just erudin and thurg were still playing eq, but the zone connections are fuxd.
Just your opinion. I think the fact that his server has a good number of players shows that peopel ARE interested in the lore and DO like the new feel of the game.
GL on trying to make something better than pre-kunark eq...
You won't need luck. It's not going to be hard.
That's entirely your opinion. Once you find yourself living through the exact situations I describe in terms of advancement, and people dropping out because they have nothing to do, you might see my point.
Regardless, as far as successful and better servers go, WR currently has the highest population record of any EQemu server of all time (150, and not on loginserver list - it lies), so I don't think I'm completely uneducated on how to make a fun server. :)
mwmdragon
07-02-2004, 05:53 AM
I was one of those oldskoolers thinking i was da shit when a GM offered me a pair of Ro boots for my pally if i did a little quest for him. Oh, and when I got my first Wurmslayer. :wink: *Sniff* I'll never forget that.
But thats why I started the NeverQuest Project. I am making Classic EQ in the Neverwinter Nights Engine. When it is done I know the playerbase will be through the roof. It plays a lot different from EQ yet still gives you the old timey feel of EQ.
Not to be plugging my project or anything.. It has been in development for over a year and has over a year to go. But this is a way I choose to Keep EQ Classic alive in my heart. And the way I want my children to experience it.
We can keep the feeling alive but we have to move on from believing that the thrill will come from old rehashed content.
Great point in this thread. It kinda made me sad because I was trying not to admit to myself the reality of never being excited about Ro Boots and a Wurm Slayer again :(
RexChaos
07-02-2004, 05:58 AM
But thats why I started the NeverQuest Project. I am making Classic EQ in the Neverwinter Nights Engine. When it is done I know the playerbase will be through the roof. It plays a lot different from EQ yet still gives you the old timey feel of EQ.
Since NWN came out I've been playing it. I have several releases of your NQ project that I've tried out. Looking forward to the completion of it. :)
Why? Because people already know where to find better stuff.
so what if they know. its a challenge pre-kunark, they still have to earn what they aquire, it will still be just as hardcore as back inthe day, not a grind fest where you twink yourself in bazaar along the way
do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?
dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..
Aquelin
07-02-2004, 07:58 AM
do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?
dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..
Those words alone seal your idiocy. WR is filled with type of content rarely ever seen by ANY EQEmu server (or most MMORPGs, mind you). Wiz has done an incredible job on the server, and it shines by the amazing reputation the server has gained. No mindlessly put together classic EQ server will/could ever compare to it's immensity, unless the database is 100% hand-crafted by a diehard whose experience exceeds all others.
Hats off to you, Wiz, great article. Hopefully most will read this and understand that many features on the EMU will simply not be weaved together in order to ever create a (successful) classic EQ server.
Why? Because people already know where to find better stuff.
so what if they know. its a challenge pre-kunark, they still have to earn what they aquire, it will still be just as hardcore as back inthe day, not a grind fest where you twink yourself in bazaar along the way
do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?
dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..
In fact, I do. Else there would be a hugely successful "classic" server that had stolen all WR's playerbase, would it not? WR has survived for two years. No classic server has even lived a tenth of that.
Your views are based on personal beliefs. Mine are based on rational logic.
Logic generally tends to win out.
Dave987
07-02-2004, 08:48 AM
Interesting topic, and in my opinion, everyone is right here - this is a matter of opinion.
EQ Classic could be recreated, and, if you really believe it, the players will try hard to get the 1337 wurmy , and collapse when they see a wizard running round in full magic gear. It could happen, with hard work, it is a possibility.
Then there is the other side of the argument. Players have now seen +30 to all stats, +20 to all resists, +200 HP / Mana gear - so why would they bother trying to get a +3 wis +10 hp gear on an EQ Classic server ? What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?
It's all opinion and players views guys . As Raex said, you're both right, there is no wrong. This is all opinion.
I'm not too sure what I think...
Thanks to Wiz, he said in one post what im trying to explain since a long moment, i think that english as native language helped him~
Anyway, i have to say that my opinion is different from Wiz on one point, the fact that you have to create a totally new world to offer to players a new experience.
For me, EverQuest offer a good basic lore (background, NPC, zones), yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.
I have to admit i never logged in Winter Roar, so i wont speak about it, but generally, peoples that develop a new background/lore for their RPG totally screw it and never use it at 100%, this lore they created is only here to say you have to kill some mobs, or do this quest, nothing that really involve you in the game, this is true for non-commercial games as well as commercial games.
Thanks to Wiz, he said in one post what im trying to explain since a long moment, i think that english as native language helped him~
Anyway, i have to say that my opinion is different from Wiz on one point, the fact that you have to create a totally new world to offer to players a new experience.
For me, EverQuest offer a good basic lore (background, NPC, zones), yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.
I have to admit i never logged in Winter Roar, so i wont speak about it, but generally, peoples that develop a new background/lore for their RPG totally screw it and never use it at 100%, this lore they created is only here to say you have to kill some mobs, or do this quest, nothing that really involve you in the game, this is true for non-commercial games as well as commercial games.
You don't have to create a new world to make something new and enjoyable. You just have to make something new and enjoyable.
And english is my second language. ;)
And english is my second language.
You english is very good for a second language, i bet you dont have a secretary to do your translations because you are too lazy ? :/
And english is my second language.
You english is very good for a second language, i bet you dont have a secretary to do your translations because you are too lazy ? :/
Hah. :P
I speak english almost as well as I speak my native language, swedish.
Darn, Wiz is swedish, now i know why you rocks ... i wish im a swedish sometimes, so i would be able to make kick ass demos
... what happens ...
... someone set us the bomb,
we get signal ...
.... what ?
Main screen turn on,
Its you ...
How are you gentleman,
All your base are belong to us
ryder911
07-02-2004, 03:58 PM
haha whats up with people saying wurmslayer is classic!?! Wurmslayer was soo kurnark.
And I must agree, with wiz on this view. I thought a EQclassic would be good, but after reading the article he wrote, it did put things in a better view for me. Playing it again would be as fun as playing it for the first time.
Charmy
07-02-2004, 05:24 PM
And english is my second language.
Wow who would have known...
In the great words of Bruce Willis ---
"Lady i only speak two languagues, English and Bad English!."
anyway, i agree with wiz, you don't need new lore, just new content, however creating/adding new lore does help, somthing that SOE never did right, hehe kinda like their huge screw up with the story behind EQ2 where the sleeper destroyed luclin and rampaged over norrath destroying the cities, execpt... the sleeper was killed on live. soo hmmm....
I don't really know where i am going with this so i will just shut up.... thanks again have a good day..
Long live the jews.
ryder911
07-02-2004, 11:46 PM
"
the story behind EQ2 where the sleeper destroyed luclin and rampaged over norrath destroying the cities, execpt... the sleeper was killed on live. soo hmmm....
I don't really know where i am going with this so i will just shut up.... thanks again have a good day..
Long live the jews.
I know where your going with it. If he was killed on live there would be no way he could ravage the world, and by the making that the lore that just means that they wont allow people to play apart in the lore.
Scorpious2k
07-02-2004, 11:57 PM
Logic generally tends to win out.
Someone has never been married....
In fact, I do. Else there would be a hugely successful "classic" server that had stolen all WR's playerbase, would it not? WR has survived for two years. No classic server has even lived a tenth of that.
no classic server has ever even been playable yet =/
i guess its just my opinion, but i dont think you can make a game better than the original eq, just by making your own npcs, quests, renaming zones and changing zone connection. i did solo a warrior to 9 on your server and did some quests and started a ton, and talked to like every npc, but the whole time it was just a sorry shadow of eq, and i was a halfling in erudin for some reason.
Players have now seen +30 to all stats, +20 to all resists, +200 HP / Mana gear - so why would they bother trying to get a +3 wis +10 hp gear on an EQ Classic server ?
uh.. because on a classic server the +3 wsi and +10hp is uber and just as much an acomplisment..
yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.
xpansions screwd the lore?? the LORE!?! i think you under estimate the how ufcked up eqlive is
What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?
you just explained the point.
And I must agree, with wiz on this view. I thought a EQclassic would be good, but after reading the article he wrote, it did put things in a better view for me. Playing it again would be as fun as playing it for the first time.
im going to assume that was a typo and you ment WOULDNT be as good as the first time. ok, lets see, it wouldnt be as fun as the first time, why not? if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..
i dont see what the point of this thread is.. an old world server is to hard to make? an old world server wont have enuf content?? it wouldnt be as fun as back in the day?? eqemu doesnt have the tools to remake the real everquest?? whats the point wiz??
i dont see what the point of this thread is.. an old world server is to hard to make? an old world server wont have enuf content?? it wouldnt be as fun as back in the day?? eqemu doesnt have the tools to remake the real everquest?? whats the point wiz??
If you don't get the point, you probably should re-read the initial post. But very well, I will take it again.
The dream of EQclassic, and the frenzy over EQclassic that many people have shown is most of all an empty dream. A server that is purely EQclassic will not hold any interest because EQclassic does not contain a worthwhile high end game and in reality, far from everyone will enjoy getting derv rings in nro again, once the novelty of "old school" wears off. If you want to make a successful server, you will need to do something else than just rip off an existing game. I don't think WR is more fun than EQlive was the first time around, but EQlive mostly was fun because it was the first time around. AC2 is pretty similar to what EQlive was back then. All casual-play directed, no endgame. AC2 flopped. EQclassic was not the godly, beat-it-all game you imagine.
I provided a good amount of logical backing for this point. You didn't even bother to try and debunk them, you just brought up WR and tried to attack it instead, whereas I had not even mentioned or tried to promote my own server. If you can explain how you will keep the interest of a playerbase limited to PoHate, PoFear, PoAir and Vox/Nagafen, feel free to do so. But constantly stating "do you think u can make a better game than EQclassic? FOOL" is not arguing, it's blind belief. If you're going to question my arguing, we could take a look at your own initial post.
you really seem to think eq classic was good because we were new to it. thats not what were trying to bring back. were trying to bring back 'the vision' tm, get rid of awfull eqlive team content etc.
Unfortunately, because of the current client versions and little game perks - you won't. The Vision's primary and absolutely most golden rule was -You do not know-. You do not know what your skills are, what your mana are, if that red mob is doable or way too deep red, what actually spawns in that room in that dungeon, what will happen if you follow through the dialogue of that Highkeep NPC. It was the enemy of little floating expression marks that defined "Hey! You! I have a quest! Hello! I only spawn in this world to stand around and give you a quest! I have no realistical or story-enchancing existance!" cue WoW and Wayfarer's Brotherhood. You can't relive the vision with in-game maps. You can't relive the vision in a world that is explored in to its very tiniest component.
why cant we relive the old days? you dont think it will be a challenge? all content been spit thru? well lvl 20 used to be a challenge and it can be again.. whens the last time you tried to take on black burrow in a group of newbs in cloth and rusty weapons?
Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. Noone said you couldn't, I only said why in the end, it's not going to work out, and won't last beyond the initial "oh my god I died to tranix darkpaw this is so cool"
why cant magic items be leet again?
why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again
why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?
Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. The items in themselves do not have some magical fun-value that will make your gaming experience great because they well, have shitty stats.
i dont know why you cant relive the old days, but i sure can if the servers there. theres plenty of content you havent expierenced in the old world. you and probly most people who posted here never did any quests besides the newbie quest armor and their epic. maybe cb belts if they were a elf lol. play a new race and talk to your guildleader, walk through your city, talk to a random npc, complete a random quest and have the outcome be worth your time and the reward not trivialized by another dev teams content .. circle of elements changes npcs names, keywords, and even adds twists to the most popular quests so there not over done- and if a kunark came out it would have to be totaly reworked to not trivialize content like it did.
Again, primarily an appeal to nostalgia. Makes one half-valid point, that lots of people didn't play back then, but it's moot if you just go take a look-see at www.allakhazam.com. You change NPC names and keywords? That's a good start, but you're going to need to do more than that to keep interest at level 50.
theres no point in the custom servers, original eq content is gold, you cant fuck with it, i mean, when you play WR, you dont give a shit about the lore or setting and dont really care why we all start in erudin or thurg, because its still just erudin and thurg were still playing eq, but the zone connections are fuxd.
Completely unbacked and unnecessary attack that carries the argumental value of "my wang is bigger than yours" without even pulling down your pants to give a demonstration. Return when you can explain why EQclassic was such an awesomealiciousoverthetop experience without appeals to tradition, emotion, or nostalgia.
GL on trying to make something better than pre-kunark eq... Fairly unrelated and unbacked glorification.
You provided one-half assed display of logic throughout your entire initial post. The rest was emotional mumbo jumbo.
Nothing is immortal in life Bbum, my best moments in life was my first times, first time i kissed a girl, first time i had sex with a girl, first time i seen a gnome in full bronze while playing EQBeta, First time i have see my babies in maternity, even with the best effort, you will never be able to resurrect those first time moments, there are things that belong to past, "EQClassic" is one of them.
All things evolve in life, MMORPG evolved since EQBeta, maybe not on the right side, i can admit it, but they evolved, and you cant refuse this evolution by being struck in your mentality, i think its the point of Wiz. An example would be Black and White TV, my grand'ma watched it, it was the first TV, only one channel, she loved it, but now, she is watcher 16/9 color TV with Pro Logic and 350+ channels, evolution ... darwin law ...
Charmy
07-03-2004, 04:14 PM
first time i had sex with a girl
just becuase its a female doesn't make it a girl.
i guess its just my opinion, but i dont think you can make a game better than the original eq, just by making your own npcs, quests, renaming zones and changing zone connection
Why yes that would be your opinion, no need to guess. And once again no you can't make the game better by changing the original eq, becuase that would infact be a new eq, not the original. Like i said earlier i still have a longing for the newbie days when you actually had to sit your ass and med for 10 mins waiting for 20m becuase your regen was so low, you actually had some challange to stay alive, now, hell there isn't a thing in the game that can't be beat, aside from maybe the jester in PoM, has anyone killed him?... well most have long since given up becuase SpyEQ reveals he has no loot tables anyway... and i don't think he has any story like the sleeper did..... hmm off topic again, but really its just the fact that after someone has seen that at level 10 it is infact possible to make a 50 point hit with the right gear, who wants to have to sit and wait and watch those 2 and 3 point hits going by whent they know they probably won't see alot of the high end zones (PoH and PoSky and such in original eq... i think. *i was post kunark*) without the aid of the server op. or a GM.
So to solve this people don't create the old eq, they instead mold their own stories, ideas and quests around the old stuff, as well as adding lots of new stuff, so instead of waiting all that time to get up to lvl 50 and all of a sudden not be able to go anywhere high end without a raid, you can instead take the alternate route that the server ops have made for you and you can have tons of fun soloing or just going with 2-3 people. <shrug>
If you didn't understand what i was getting at, lets just put it like this. "No matter how hard you try, it won't work, its not worth it, old stuff has long since turned old, its the new and improved storys, quests that are in demand, thats why SoE releases expansions, although they all suck now, but still its to keep the place alive."
Sladdaya
07-03-2004, 05:54 PM
I just read this post for the first time, had never even noticed it before, but man, did you have to drop reality on me like that? Lol, I couldn't even finish reading the whole thread....I started tearing up as my dreams of reliving EQClassic were ripped from the nether regions of my brain...ouch....
Anyways, I thought I'd share my opinion of EQLive...it was okay, even the lore remained half intact as it spread from EQClassic to up to the Velious expansion, after that, with the addition of Luclin, druids and wizards became unimportant, boat use was minimal, and eventually died out... The ability to travel between continents and explore the moon via spires nearly ruined the EQ experience for me, I was about ready to quit. I managed to stick with it, and then PoP came out, GAH, the ability to travel to SO MANY CITIES BY CLICKING A F*CKING STONE seriously ruined EQ for me.... I nearly quit leveling and merely played the game to sit in PoK and talk to friends I had made. It was sad....
The point of this is, I believe an EQClassic server, while not as fun as I had originally hoped, nor as popular as many of the current servers, could be somewhat enjoyable.
Now...does anyone have an amnesia ray I can borrow...I wanna go back to the beginning, when I was a newb, and I WAS excited about any item I got....GOD I LOVED MY FIRST WURMY!!!!
I still dont see the point wiz. Make it alittle more clear for me.
Is the point: A pre-kunark server wouldnt have enough content? cause thats mostly what im seeing
well i just dont know about that =/ im expecting the level to 50 to feel like a grind all over again, and i mean a hardcore grind where you prove your worhty of the next lvl not the brainless grind to 50 today. im expecting it to be like old days where half the days your group ends the day with negative expierence.
and i dont know about your expierence, but to me going in plane of hate was barly worth it we got pwned so hard. Even later PoFear i got owned with a full group of lvl 50's, to me theres tons of content out there to keep us busy, we probly wouldnt see planar armor on the server for a good few months. the content lasted me back then and i didnt even see it all.
i think if anything it would be to hardcore for all the newbs used to leveling now, especially if hell lvls, lvl 1 corpse runs, no soul binder npcs, no maps no find no teleports no newbie quest gear came back
far from everyone will enjoy getting derv rings in nro again, once the novelty of "old school" wears off.
why do you say that? you think they would rather have derv rings be obsolete? why do you call it a novelty?? would you rather have what the eqlive team has created??
If you want to make a successful server, you will need to do something else than just rip off an existing game.
Your the one trying to rip off eq. Were trying to recreate the eq we havent played in 4 years, and we kno it. You cant take eq, and make a better game than eq thats not even on norrath, we know were stil playing eq, its just not fun IMO. but we can upgrade norrath, make whats already there better. seems alot more realistic than making a new game to me, because in the end its really just another eq server but whacked out, and not the quality of everquest
You can't relive the vision in a world that is explored in to its very tiniest component.
not everyone has explored every inch of norrath, and no ones forcing you to look at allakazam, so speak for yourself.
Quote:
why cant magic items be leet again?
why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again
why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?
Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. The items in themselves do not have some magical fun-value that will make your gaming experience great because they well, have shitty stats.
No. They dont have shitty stats. They are ubar, and an accomplishment to aquire. Unlike in eqlive. That is the point.
Return when you can explain why EQclassic was such an awesomealiciousoverthetop experience without appeals to tradition, emotion, or nostalgia.
What is it you want me to explain? why eqclassic is better than eqlive? why its more worth while to create a pre-kunark remake than trying to create a new game? why eq classic had better gameplay than any other mmorpg since? i dont think i need to
You provided one-half assed display of logic throughout your entire initial post. The rest was emotional mumbo jumbo.
well since that is untrue, i will now post every bit of logic i tried to communicate to you in my last post.
no classic server has ever even been playable yet
What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?
you just explained the point.
we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
khan- Nothing is immortal in life Bbum, my best moments in life was my first times,
ok, stop there, EQ WAS NOT GOOD BECAUSE YOU THINK I WAS SOME MMOG VIRGIN. eq was better than eqlive and other modern mmorpgs because it of gameplay mechanics, deep lore and its hardcore challenge.
An example would be Black and White TV, my grand'ma watched it, it was the first TV, only one channel, she loved it, but now, she is watcher 16/9 color TV with Pro Logic and 350+ channels, evolution
that is a one bad example. New tvs pwn ur grandma's tvs. but eqlive doesnt pwn shit, it evolved into crap.
If you didn't understand what i was getting at, lets just put it like this. "No matter how hard you try, it won't work, its not worth it, old stuff has long since turned old, its the new and improved storys, quests that are in demand, thats why SoE releases expansions, although they all suck now, but still its to keep the place alive.
thats what i think to, but just because they have to add more content does not mean they have to trivialize old content, noob the game up by killing gameplay mechanics and kill the old zones lets face it, the eqlive team didnt know what they were doing.
I nearly quit leveling and merely played the game to sit in PoK and talk to friends I had made. It was sad....
i quit leveling and sat at newbie left in kelethin and buffed peopel and just talked to people, pvp'd, and buffed newbs .
the only way to have fun in live is to do random quests you can find around your city, even though the reward is not worthwhile, not do newbie gear quests, only use what yu loot, and not twink yourself.
btw, gettnig your wurmy can be just as much an acomplishment as before. it was the game mechanics that made orignal eq what it was, not being a noob.
I still dont see the point wiz. Make it alittle more clear for me.
Is the point: A pre-kunark server wouldnt have enough content? cause thats mostly what im seeing
well i just dont know about that =/ im expecting the level to 50 to feel like a grind all over again, and i mean a hardcore grind where you prove your worhty of the next lvl not the brainless grind to 50 today. im expecting it to be like old days where half the days your group ends the day with negative expierence.
and i dont know about your expierence, but to me going in plane of hate was barly worth it we got pwned so hard. Even later PoFear i got owned with a full group of lvl 50's, to me theres tons of content out there to keep us busy, we probly wouldnt see planar armor on the server for a good few months. the content lasted me back then and i didnt even see it all.
i think if anything it would be to hardcore for all the newbs used to leveling now, especially if hell lvls, lvl 1 corpse runs, no soul binder npcs, no maps no find no teleports no newbie quest gear came back
That's very cool. Unfortunately, as I explained, it's not going to be the same getting pwned in PoHate. If you put exp rates at the same as original live, you're never going to have enough 50's to tackle Hate.
Not to mention strats are available on every mob there. How are you going to do no maps? They are an integrated part of the client,c an't be changed.
And the hardcore grind is going to lose you a lot of players. Less people want to spend forever leveling than you think on a server that has about 50 other people to interact with. Trust my experience on this. I have dealt with thousands of players and their complaints and wishes over the last two years. I'm not just speaking out of my ass here. If you don't believe me, I can dig up some quotes from players on matters such as experience gain, content progression, downtime and transporatation. Are you going to forbid dual clienting? Because otherwise that will rather trivialize this hardcore grind you're aiming for.
You wouldn't see armor for months? Awesome. Players will drop off like flies from lack of progression. No, the content didn't "last", in fact most high end players (myself included) were bored to tears around when Kunark came out. There was nothing to do. I saw a necromancer spend about 50 hours raising Rivervale faction, because he had nothing else to do. This might make you blissful with nostalgia, but not me.
why do you say that? you think they would rather have derv rings be obsolete? why do you call it a novelty?? would you rather have what the eqlive team has created??
Because it's totally irrelevant. People have done it before, and it's hard to get excited over +2 DEX rings. Let me explain something to you. There are two kinds of values. Objective and subjective. Objective values are things like food. You must have food. Subjective values are things like money, a John Travolta movie or an item in EQ. Everyone knows, nowadays, that 2 DEX does exactly jack and shit. It's totally irrelevant if there's nothing better out there. +0.1% proc rate isn't going to cause anyone to cream their pants. Their subjective value will be quite low.
Your the one trying to rip off eq. Were trying to recreate the eq we havent played in 4 years, and we kno it. You cant take eq, and make a better game than eq thats not even on norrath, we know were stil playing eq, its just not fun IMO. but we can upgrade norrath, make whats already there better. seems alot more realistic than making a new game to me, because in the end its really just another eq server but whacked out, and not the quality of everquest
It's called modify. Look it up on dictionary.com. I'm not trying to rip off EQ anymore than Counterstrike tried to rip off Half-Life. I am changing a game that I love into my own ideal image of it. You are copying and pasting the past into the present, in utter ignorance of the fact that things change. Again, you make these utterly and totally unfounded claims of superiority, backed by nothing except empty jargon. Here's how you make a point:
A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.
-NOT-
A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
Now wasn't that informative? You'll need to explain WHY EQclassic was such amazing quality, besides what I already stated, the point of the vision and the fact that it was first and undespoiled. Why are blackburrow gnolls so infinitely superior to Velious gnolls or WR gnolls? I love oldworld, but it's not the end-all gaming experience.
not everyone has explored every inch of norrath, and no ones forcing you to look at allakazam, so speak for yourself.
This shows that you have no practical understanding of how players work. People WILL look at allakhazam if they can. That's just how they work, shown to unprecedented amounts by the very EQlive you yearn for.
No. They dont have shitty stats. They are ubar, and an accomplishment to aquire. Unlike in eqlive. That is the point.
Actually, they do. Getting a giant snake fang is not an accomplishment. Nor a mino axe. It takes nothing but a level 20 character for either. How is that an accomplishment compared to say, Uqua gear in EQlive, which takes months and extreme dedication to get? :?: Or even or Cmal3 gear on WR, which takes a well-balanced, skillful group with good gear to acquire? You seem to be rather blinded by your own prejudice here.
What is it you want me to explain? why eqclassic is better than eqlive? why its more worth while to create a pre-kunark remake than trying to create a new game? why eq classic had better gameplay than any other mmorpg since? i dont think i need to
Actually, you do. Because you believe in EQclassic the almighty doesn't mean everyone else do. You're projecting all over the place. Or alternatively, you just can't argue your point logically, so you spit out more emotional garbage.
well since that is untrue, i will now post every bit of logic i tried to communicate to you in my last post.
Hoo boy. Here we go.
What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?
you just explained the point.
Personal bias. I don't enjoy the PoK books, but many people do. You're projecting.
we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..
This wasn't logical at all. First of all, you have no rights to make claims as to what the REAL everquest is. The REAL everquest is the game that the current owners of the everquest brand distribute. Secondly, things have changed in those four years that make it impossible to go back completely, as I explained, thirdly, the last part of this sentence is exceptionally stupid projection where you try to assert that I share your views, despite all what I posted why this server simply wouldn't be very fun. Or, essentially:
A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???
How is that in any shape or form logical? Man, you really need to learn how to argue.
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Right, let's split this up.
ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something..
Ad hominem. Double ad hominem, even. To display what an ad hominem is, we'll bring out our educational friends A and B again.
A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.
Here's a quiz for you. Which person here used an ad hominem, dismissal of a point on the weak grounds of a personal insult? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't A.
but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.
I'm going to repeat argumentative school again, just for your benefit, so maybe you can construct something that makes sense next time:
Making a point and backing it up.
A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.
-NOT-
A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
How to avoid Projecting
A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???
The simple key to avoiding projecting is to stop assuming everyone else has the same mindset at you. Also known as: Not being an ant.
How to avoid Ad Hominems
A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.
Avoiding Ad Hominems is even easier! To avoid an Ad Hom, all you have to do is argue the points, not the person. I know, I know, it'd require you to actually say something coherent, but see the first part of argumentative school,
Making a point and backing it up. for this.
So, kids, did everyone learn something today?
I just read this post for the first time, had never even noticed it before, but man, did you have to drop reality on me like that? Lol, I couldn't even finish reading the whole thread....I started tearing up as my dreams of reliving EQClassic were ripped from the nether regions of my brain...ouch....
Anyways, I thought I'd share my opinion of EQLive...it was okay, even the lore remained half intact as it spread from EQClassic to up to the Velious expansion, after that, with the addition of Luclin, druids and wizards became unimportant, boat use was minimal, and eventually died out... The ability to travel between continents and explore the moon via spires nearly ruined the EQ experience for me, I was about ready to quit. I managed to stick with it, and then PoP came out, GAH, the ability to travel to SO MANY CITIES BY CLICKING A F*CKING STONE seriously ruined EQ for me.... I nearly quit leveling and merely played the game to sit in PoK and talk to friends I had made. It was sad....
The point of this is, I believe an EQClassic server, while not as fun as I had originally hoped, nor as popular as many of the current servers, could be somewhat enjoyable.
Now...does anyone have an amnesia ray I can borrow...I wanna go back to the beginning, when I was a newb, and I WAS excited about any item I got....GOD I LOVED MY FIRST WURMY!!!!
I think an EQclassic server could be enjoyable, at least for some time, before boredom from lack of progression sets in, or people tire of being on a server with 20 people split over 12 cities. No doubt. Probably even a good amount of enjoyable if it somehow managed to concentrate the playerbase to a small area and get it to grow considerably. But it won't be EQclassic.
YurikaiX
07-04-2004, 04:26 AM
Wiz.... ^.^ *rubs his head* Could you say all that again.... only so that a 20 year old numb nut can understand? Ha ha.. I got lost haflway in the post with all the qoutes... well either that or i read so much that my mind was going Link dead lol.... ..ill just reread it in a little bit I guess...
mattmeck
07-04-2004, 04:31 AM
EQ clasic with 20 heck even 100 people playing on the server would suck bad. LFG for fours and hours, not able to solo or do anything by yourself due to the legit rules and crappy ( compared to todays twink stuff ) gear.
If you could start a clasic server and have thousands play on it it would work and work well, with less then 100 playing it would die in no time. There may be a little crew of 5-6 people who play together but how much fun is a server with few people?
JohnRev
07-04-2004, 06:12 AM
Jesus H. Christ. That was very well writen. I've had the insatuable urge for classic, the peril, the lostness, all of that jazz. You made me see the clear! I may quit EQ now for good. You've liberated my mind.
Thank you.
Farahl24
07-04-2004, 11:55 AM
I saw a flash movie somewhere a while ago that showcased pictures and music from classic EQ, and it brought tears to my eyes ..silly as that may seem, but EQ was so magical when I first started playing it. Everyone was using classic character models, someone with an epic was Godly, etc. Luclin hadn't been envisioned yet. Now adays, EQ is a lot different and as the point was made earlier (Wiz I think), nobody wants to wear a +2 DEX ring when they can easily get a +10 DEX ring. Hell even newbie armor is better than what we started with back in pre-kunark days. Cloth, leather, and if you were substantially rich, chain of some sort. More on this below.
In EQemu I would enjoy a classic server for about 20 minutes, tops. You see, in EQlive I HAVE to level up. There are no commands, and if I choose to play EQlive, I have no choice but to work for what I want. So if I want to level up and work for gear, I play EQlive. But in EQemu, on many servers, I type #level and #si and #scribespells. So why would I dabble around playing on a server where I would have to level up, and have to work for those +2 DEX rings, when I could easily switch to another and have time gear within minutes? Because that's not the way I like to play EQemu. The reason a classic EQ server wouldn't work in EQemu is -For many people including myself, EQemu is a way to see what high-end EQ is like (for the most part). It's an escape from EQlive, an escape from mad hours spent on my ass hitting the Q key and drinking soda. As I have seen first hand from running my own EQemu server, people want Time and GoD gear. People complain about things such as, my ring of prismatic visions disappeared when I zoned, omg!!!11!1 and, Are there any custom items on the server and OMG you NERFED 11000??????!??!11?!?!11 ..not ONE person complained about plague rat tail drops on large rats in qeynos2. I had to increase the exp multiplier on my server to keep people happy, because they wanted to level up quickly. I added an NPC that gave players level 20 right away. Guess what happened? The player base skyrocketed from the average 2 people a day to 15-20 people a day and more. This happened because most people don't WANT to dabble around for hours. They want what they want, and they want it NOW, not next week. I left that oppurtunity open for my players, and they grabbed ahold of it and began to dance with it. Not one player on my server chose to ignore the Headmaster and level, not one. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people who enjoy spending endless hours earning that 12AC breastplate and leveling up, there are, and sometimes I do myself. But not in EQemu, not when the oppurtunity for better is always there, ready to take in an instant. When people know there is better out there, and know it is easy to get, they're going to go for the better. That's human nature - If you were offered a Pinto or a Ferrari, which would you choose?
To sum it all up, EQ classic is gone, and not to return. You can create all the max level cap 50, time gearless servers you want, butIf someone wishes to have a classic EQ, they will need to create an entirely new game, with new surprises and new gear. That feeling of magic, myth and mystery that we all felt will only surface if we log in to the server and have no idea what to expect. We all know in our hearts that EQ classic is gone, some of us just need to be opened up in different ways before we finally accept it. And when we do finally accept it, perhaps the reality of things will fall into place better.
Sir Kane the Destroyer
ServerOP, Claws of Veeshan
To sum it all up, EQ classic is gone, and not to return. You can create all the max level cap 50, time gearless servers you want, butIf someone wishes to have a classic EQ, they will need to create an entirely new game, with new surprises and new gear. That feeling of magic, myth and mystery that we all felt will only surface if we log in to the server and have no idea what to expect. We all know in our hearts that EQ classic is gone, some of us just need to be opened up in different ways before we finally accept it. And when we do finally accept it, perhaps the reality of things will fall into place better.
you are wrong. if eq classic came back, it would be the same eq classic we knew before. and i dont know about you, but i havent played it in 4 years and would happily play again
you dont think players want a hardcore server? they dont want to be newbs? they dont want to work for content that is worthless on eqlive? well then they dont have to fucking play but theres some people out there who want a challenge
your right about one thing.. if you know every single inch of eq leveled every race / class combo to 50 and done every quest in every city i guess ya, your only chance is a new game. You know what the problem is tho? new games are newb'd down, useally dont have good lore, no class inter-dependancy and leveling is not an acomplishment.
i dont kno about u guys but being a virgin to norrath wasnt what made original eq good, it was its game mechanics. there was nothing special about it, ever. it was just another game my action quake 2 clan played. i never went around and talked to npcs for no reason, and never really explored, there was no mystry to me. thats not why eq was good.
im gonna write my response to wiz's huge post now =(
let me rephraise a few things wiz, since english isnt your first language you probly translate alot of the text wrong ( ive seen people like you on the net, they know engllish perfectly by the dictionary and kno every word in the universe and talk like a professer, but cant understand a damn sentence.)
You wouldn't see armor for months? Awesome. Players will drop off like flies from lack of progression. No, the content didn't "last", in fact most high end players (myself included) were bored to tears around when Kunark came out. There was nothing to do. I saw a necromancer spend about 50 hours raising Rivervale faction, because he had nothing else to do. This might make you blissful with nostalgia, but not me.
what i said was no planar armor for a few months lol, anyway, i didnt even get 50 till kunark came out, i never had the pleasure of reaching 50 and waiiting around for kunark. perhaps thats why i would like to play old world again, and you would not, because i didnt fully expierence it eheh.
People have done it before, and it's hard to get excited over +2 DEX rings
its not hard when there ubar. any kind of stat gear should be considered leet. thats the point of the servr, if you like how eq is now where you dont even check if items are magic anymore than have fun.
I am changing a game that I love into my own ideal image of it.
wr is your ideal image of eq? lol thats lame man, lame.
This shows that you have no practical understanding of how players work. People WILL look at allakhazam if they can. That's just how they work, shown to unprecedented amounts by the very EQlive you yearn for.
i dont yearn for EQlive. EQlive is the pos made by the EQlive team after mcquaid went to sigil and trost/ smedley and the rest went to wrok on eq2
and i go on live all the time and do quests without allakazam, its fun, if people want to ruin there fun they can.
No. They dont have shitty stats. They are ubar, and an accomplishment to aquire. Unlike in eqlive. That is the point.
Actually, they do. Getting a giant snake fang is not an accomplishment. Nor a mino axe. It takes nothing but a level 20 character for either.
the point is, obtaining those items on an original server would be an acomplishment, its ubah, while on a live server would be something you sell to a merchant as junk. not to mention lvl 20 on a live server is nothin but a day at paludal, and for the first 10 lvls you dont have to worry about any risk or challenge at all.
What is it you want me to explain? why eqclassic is better than eqlive? why its more worth while to create a pre-kunark remake than trying to create a new game? why eq classic had better gameplay than any other mmorpg since? i dont think i need to
Actually, you do. Because you believe in EQclassic the almighty doesn't mean everyone else do. You're projecting all over the place. Or alternatively, you just can't argue your point logically, so you spit out more emotional garbage.
you know the answer to all 3. i wont waste my time.
we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..
This wasn't logical at all. First of all, you have no rights to make claims as to what the REAL everquest is.
ah god damn stfu u kno exactly what i mean lol
Quote:
but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.
thats not the whole quote and is taken out of contex.. you were saying eq original would not be as fun if we played now. now read my quote
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
get it now? i wasnt saying eqclassic is the best it can get, as in best game in the world.. geez...
btw, this is what REALLY went down :lol:
A) i luv brocolli, but ive already eatin it and allakazam.com had discovered every inch of it, so i dont want to eat it again
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it. its still the same broccoli u had before, and not everyone had eatin it all.
A) rahhhhr projecting kids ad hominem argue points not person make a point an back it up pete owns bob at soccro teh ubar rowr
p.s. im not trying to sound intelegent, or trying to be a leet forum dude, or get respect, or penis envy, or like a master argueer, or like i know what im talking about, im just trying to tell people why an eq classic server is still worthwhile. This would go alot smoother on irc i think =)
mattmeck
07-04-2004, 04:49 PM
The main point Wiz stated you missed i guess, YOU may want that back, 4-5 others may realy want it back, BUT most of the people who claim they want it back will get bored within a week and drop the server for a semi-legit or a legit where its easier to LV.
There is NO player base for the old content, kind of hard to do plain raids when there is only 10 people who play on the server.
govtcheeze
07-04-2004, 05:33 PM
im not trying to sound [...sic...] like i know what im talking about
I think we all finally agree on something.
Wiz said it perfectly, most people have stated they agree with wiz. If there is such a need or want for a classic server, where are your fanbois rallying to your side?
I believe his intention was to save people a lot of time and energy building something that is doomed to fail. If you feel so strongly in disagreement, spend that energy building this classic server and tell everyone to fuck off. Do it for you, not for us.
x-scythe
07-04-2004, 06:18 PM
lol we are building a classic server :) its called Circle of Elements.
wether it suceeds or not it has still been fun making it.
Sladdaya
07-04-2004, 11:16 PM
I'm working on a server as well...right now, I'm leaning toward getting rid of the Nexus and PoK at the very least, gah how I despise those zones, I want it to be somewhat classic, but with a lot of custom content...I want to re-experience the magic and make EQ my own.
Umm, I know this isn't the place for it, but since I mentioned my server and all, any chance there's any way to change how auto-attack works? I'm assuming it's hardcoded, but if it's not, I'd like to make it more interactive....pressing Q....or in my case A is just...well....boring. Not expecting to be able to do it, just very hopeful, lol.
circle of elements is a full old world remake, including old world game mechanics, with custom content and quests and npcs text as well. so you shoudl help us :)
BUT most of the people who claim they want it back will get bored within a week and drop the server for a semi-legit or a legit where its easier to LV.
we got 97 reigstered useers on our forum at eqclassic.com and its only been up like a week! if even half of those peopel played that would be enought to make the server feel alive, old world is pretty damn small.
i think theres tons of people like me, who dont give a sh* about eq emu, or even the eqlive, but would still play a pre-kunark server, but maybe not =/
i think wiz should have a poll on his server about weather he should continue wr or a eq remake lol
let me rephraise a few things wiz, since english isnt your first language you probly translate alot of the text wrong ( ive seen people like you on the net, they know engllish perfectly by the dictionary and kno every word in the universe and talk like a professer, but cant understand a damn sentence.)
Superiority through condenscating tone does not work. If anything, you're the one that is butchering your own language.
what i said was no planar armor for a few months lol, anyway, i didnt even get 50 till kunark came out, i never had the pleasure of reaching 50 and waiiting around for kunark. perhaps thats why i would like to play old world again, and you would not, because i didnt fully expierence it eheh.
Yeah, planar armor is what I meant too.
its not hard when there ubar. any kind of stat gear should be considered leet. thats the point of the servr, if you like how eq is now where you dont even check if items are magic anymore than have fun.
+2 DEX is still like 0.1% proc rate. Try not to quote so incredibly selectively. Point not refuted.
wr is your ideal image of eq? lol thats lame man, lame.
Personal attack. WR is my project that is aiming towards my ideal image of EQ. It is far from complete. I refer you back to argumentative school, because you fail on the quiz.
i dont yearn for EQlive. EQlive is the pos made by the EQlive team after mcquaid went to sigil and trost/ smedley and the rest went to wrok on eq2
and i go on live all the time and do quests without allakazam, its fun, if people want to ruin there fun they can.
I'm pretty sure you know what I meant. You yearn for the original EQlive. You're just arguing a different point than what I said (people WILL use allakhazam) because you can't refute that one.
the point is, obtaining those items on an original server would be an acomplishment, its ubah, while on a live server would be something you sell to a merchant as junk. not to mention lvl 20 on a live server is nothin but a day at paludal, and for the first 10 lvls you dont have to worry about any risk or challenge at all.
No, killing a giant snake is not much of an accomplishment at all. It might be a decently useful lowbie item, but knowing what I know now, I could easily get 20 in a day on a Classic server that perfectly emulated EQclassic.
you know the answer to all 3. i wont waste my time.
Yup, I do.
ah god damn stfu u kno exactly what i mean lol
So? It still wasn't logical, it was an appeal to nostalgia. I could apply that to anything, for example:
"We still haven't had a REAL milennia shift for four years, so I suggest we set back all calendars to 1999 again."
thats not the whole quote and is taken out of contex.. you were saying eq original would not be as fun if we played now. now read my quote
Yes, I did. And I backed up my point with a lot of logic that you have yet to refute. And the rest of the quote was ad hominems, so I think I did you a favor in taking it "out of context". You claimed a paragraph consisting of two ad hominems and a single statement of personal bias was logical reasoning? Wtf?
get it now? i wasnt saying eqclassic is the best it can get, as in best game in the world.. geez...
btw, this is what REALLY went down
A) i luv brocolli, but ive already eatin it and allakazam.com had discovered every inch of it, so i dont want to eat it again
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it. its still the same broccoli u had before, and not everyone had eatin it all.
A) rahhhhr projecting kids ad hominem argue points not person make a point an back it up pete owns bob at soccro teh ubar rowr
That is quite possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen. Ever. You're comparing what you can "investigate" and "spoil" in a piece of food compared to what you can investigate in a game that was built around the very core of a vision that stated players should not have access to any extended amounts of information. Not to mention it's not the same brocolli at all. Not even remotely, because of all the client changes (but since your eyes will start glazing over when reading this sentence and jump to the next one that wouldn't shatter your faith, why do I bother?). And BTW, trying to dismiss the fact that you suck at arguing with a childish "I'm so cool this means nothing lol" doesn't work either.
p.s. im not trying to sound intelegent
Good. You're not.
, or trying to be a leet forum dude, or get respect, or penis envy, or like a master argueer, or like i know what im talking about, im just trying to tell people why an eq classic server is still worthwhile. This would go alot smoother on irc i think =)
Yeah, unfortunately, the only points you have stated so far are:
"Because."
and
"Because you suck."
You've provided nothing but personal bias and personal attacks on my own project throughout the entirety of this post. Your hint that I'm doing this to try to be a cool forum dood is pretty pathetic too. Let me just explain this as simple as possible. When you're trying to convince a person of an opposite stance, you need to provide plenty of reasoning - see my original post, and the amount of people who said it changed their views. If I had written as you, it would have been something like this:
"EQclassic doesn't work beacuse WR ROCKS man and you know it you know you want to play WR hahaha you're a freak and you KNOW that EQclassic sucks you KNOW it."
How many people would be convinced, do you think?
You get an F- on your test. And I'm still amazed at the stupidity of that analogy.
circle of elements is a full old world remake, including old world game mechanics, with custom content and quests and npcs text as well. so you shoudl help us :)
we got 97 reigstered useers on our forum at eqclassic.com and its only been up like a week! if even half of those peopel played that would be enought to make the server feel alive, old world is pretty damn small.
i think theres tons of people like me, who dont give a sh* about eq emu, or even the eqlive, but would still play a pre-kunark server, but maybe not =/
i think wiz should have a poll on his server about weather he should continue wr or a eq remake lol
You're seriously missing something here. The point of my entire original post is that there are plenty of people (myself included) who really loved pre-Kunark EQ, and wish for it back, but mistakenly think that it can be brought back.
If I made a poll like that, I'd probably get some people who'd want me to make an EQ classic remake (by sheer virtue of time investment already placed into WR alone most people wouldn't want it to change though), but 95% of these people would quit within a few weeks on a real EQ classic server.
I know you're stonewalling what everyone else is saying, but jeesh, at least misunderstand me in the right way.
Yeah, unfortunately, the only points you have stated so far are:
"Because."
and
"Because you suck."
your points is
1. pre -kunark wont be fun now because were not noobs and wont be getting lost in neriak..
2. there wont be enuf content on a pre-kunark server
whats my point is:
1. pre-kunark wasnt leet becasue we were noobs.
ive been on subject this whole time, it seems like your the one who keeps posting without a point, your not even talking about eq classic your just pwning me with your brain and giving me a scool lesson
Superiority through condenscating tone does not work. If anything, you're the one that is butchering your own language.
that was my point. i live in america, i dont know the language by the book like you.
+2 DEX is still like 0.1% proc rate. Try not to quote so incredibly selectively. Point not refuted.
what point?
Personal attack. WR is my project that is aiming towards my ideal image of EQ. It is far from complete. I refer you back to argumentative school, because you fail on the quiz.
thats not a personal attack, wr is just lame compared to real eq,s ry
No, killing a giant snake is not much of an accomplishment at all. It might be a decently useful lowbie item, but knowing what I know now, I could easily get 20 in a day on a Classic server that perfectly emulated EQclassic.
uhmmmmmmmmmmmm, no.
Quote:
you know the answer to all 3. i wont waste my time.
Yup, I do
really? so you know why pre-kunark is better than eqlive, why its more worthwhile to make a eq remake than try to make a new game, and why eq is better than any mmog since?
then wtf am i posting here still
So? It still wasn't logical, it was an appeal to nostalgia. I could apply that to anything, for example:
"We still haven't had a REAL milennia shift for four years, so I suggest we set back all calendars to 1999 again."
it was perfectly logical. you knew exactly what i ment when i said real everquest, so did everyone else who read the sentence, do i have to say pre-kunark for you to not be a bitch about it? no one gives a shit if i call it exept the few grammar nerd trolls
Yes, I did. And I backed up my point with a lot of logic that you have yet to refute. And the rest of the quote was ad hominems, so I think I did you a favor in taking it "out of context". You claimed a paragraph consisting of two ad hominems and a single statement of personal bias was logical reasoning? Wtf?
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,
and then you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world. then you give me a lesson on how to back up my point . way to be a dick man.
your not even reading my posts anymore, are you? im pretty sure you were that angry and were going to post that before you finsished the first sentence
Selective quoting, superiority claim and projecting, all in one.
Are you even trying anymore?
screw u lol, hell no im not trying, not trying to be leet anyway, all im trying to do is make peope think eq classic server isnt a bad idea..
this thread should be locked lol.. i mean.. what if made a thread called 'Winters Roar - and why it doesnt work"
of course the thread would be stupid, becasue theres no reason wr cant work, it just has very limited appeal (who would want to play norrath jr. besides people banned from eq or broke peopel with no other choice?)
screw u lol, hell no im not trying, not trying to be leet anyway, all im trying to do is make peope think eq classic server isnt a bad idea..
this thread should be locked lol.. i mean.. what if made a thread called 'Winters Roar - and why it doesnt work"
of course the thread would be stupid, becasue theres no reason wr cant work, it just has very limited appeal (who would want to play norrath jr. besides people banned from eq or broke peopel with no other choice?)
Go ahead. Unfortunately, you wouldn't actually be able to convince people, because you seem rather incapable of stating anything that isn't a blind belief.
I'll settle with solid logic and proven points. Or as you call it, "being leet". :D
you seem rather incapable of stating anything that isn't a blind belief.
dude cmon, your just being an ass in the last few posts lol
what blind belief do i believe in???//?//?
you seem rather incapable of stating anything that isn't a blind belief.
dude cmon, your just being an ass in the last few posts lol
what blind belief do i believe in???//?//?
No, I'm not just being an ass. I'm pointing out that you haven't provided any backing whatsoever for your opinion of EQclassic, and has failed to refute any of the points originally made. If you claim something but can't back it up with reasoning, it becomes a belief.
That's all.
your points is
1. pre -kunark wont be fun now because were not noobs and wont be getting lost in neriak..
2. there wont be enuf content on a pre-kunark server
whats my point is:
1. pre-kunark wasnt leet becasue we were noobs.
ive been on subject this whole time, it seems like your the one who keeps posting without a point, your not even talking about eq classic your just pwning me with your brain and giving me a scool lesson
Okay. Now here's the thing. I've backed up my stance on pre-kunark, and lots of people on this thread has agreed with me that the most fun thing about pre-kunark was the fact that you just didn't know.
You have stated that pre-kunark content was amazing and awesome and delicious, without actually explaining what was so good about it.
what point?
That +2 DEX rings will not have people all excited now that they know how useless 2 DEX actually is.
uhmmmmmmmmmmmm, no.
Yup. Towards the end of classic, before kunark, I got a character to level 20 (necro) without twinkage or PLing in about 18 hours of play. It's not hard when you know the right spots.
really? so you know why pre-kunark is better than eqlive, why its more worthwhile to make a eq remake than try to make a new game, and why eq is better than any mmog since?
then wtf am i posting here still
This calls for a snicker.
it was perfectly logical. you knew exactly what i ment when i said real everquest, so did everyone else who read the sentence, do i have to say pre-kunark for you to not be a bitch about it? no one gives a shit if i call it exept the few grammar nerd trolls
No see, the point wasn't what you meant. I understood what you meant, even if it's poor practice to use jargon that might mean different things to different people. It just wasn't a logical point (which was what I originally asked for, then you replied "I have said logical things:" and quoted that), because it was all emotion and personal bias.
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,
and then you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world. then you give me a lesson on how to back up my point . way to be a dick man.
Go re-read the initial post. I backed up my points rather well. If you want to point out any logical fallacies in my reasoning, do so, instead of yelling generic insults.
Unless you missed it, cleverboy, YOU were the one that quoted the section I picked apart. I was replying to your claim that it was a logical point. Way to insult yourself. You didn't say "unless", you said "because". There's a huge difference there.
You seem to be getting rather riled up.
Melwin2
07-05-2004, 12:18 PM
This thread is the reason the EQEmu forums have existed to this point.
Once it dies down, you can close them.
If you want to point out any logical fallacies in my reasoning, do so, instead of yelling generic insults.
and then you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world. then you give me a lesson on how to back up my point . way to be a dick man.
done.
Unless you missed it, cleverboy, YOU were the one that quoted the section I picked apart. I was replying to your claim that it was a logical point. Way to insult yourself. You didn't say "unless", you said "because". There's a huge difference there.
wait what, i dont get this sentence? where did i say unless instead of because?
and then you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world. then you give me a lesson on how to back up my point . way to be a dick man.
Yawn. Of course, it was about pointing out logical fallacies in the overlying argument, but let's look at this.
You quoted as logic:
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
I replied by slicing it up to point out why this wasn't logical at all.
Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.
I see no logical fallacy here. You did use unbased promotion.
wait what, i dont get this sentence? where did i say unless instead of because?
You said:
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Direct attrition.
You then said:
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,
I assumed you didn't just drift off completely and start talking about your general consensus. I guess that was wrong.
what? lol
someone put this in dumbass terms for me
mattmeck
07-05-2004, 01:18 PM
ok dumb ass terms
You are the only person who thinks what you think, everyone else says the the reverse is true. Also you have not offered one piece of real evidence to support your "feelings".
You have every right to feel the way you do but bairly anyone agrees with you and you are trying to MAKE everyone agree with you, even after being offered proof.
I have seen thousands of servers come and go and the servers that try to be like live ( yes the old school servers too ) fail 100% of the time. They get people that say "this will be fun" "I will play on that server" but that lasts weeks if even that long, people dont want live they want fast leveling uber items ect. The ONLY "legit" servers to last long are the ones with original content. This is a FACT not a feeling, the proof is right at the login server for you to see.
Snootay
07-05-2004, 02:09 PM
that was my point. i live in america, i dont know the language by the book like you.
He doesn't speak English better than you because you're a native speaker(THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MY BRAIN JUST FLEW OUT OF MY NOSTRIL AND RAN AWAY TO HIDE IN THE CORNER WOAH LOOK AT THE PRETTY COLORS), he speaks English better than you because he's not a fucking retard.
I'm an American and speak better English than Wiz! He's a dumb Swede. Consequently, I speak Swedish better than him too. Did you know, in Sweden, they don't even have SWEDISH FISH!? The horror.
do i really need to explain why pre kunark eq is better than wr lol, and then do i hve to explain why i would rather play a classic remake then wr :?:
I'm an American and speak better English than Wiz!
ya, but ur gehy lol, if i cared what wiz was talking about, id have to google every other word to figure out what hes saying, every person who speaks enlgish as there second language i meet on irc or whatever's english is like that
ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.
I see no logical fallacy here. You did use unbased promotion.
unbased promotion?? wth, and the logical fallacy is you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world.[/quote]
mattmeck
07-05-2004, 04:45 PM
do i really need to explain why pre kunark eq is better than wr lol, and then do i hve to explain why i would rather play a classic remake then wr
There you go again on your personal crusade against WR, I thought it was a discussion about a clasic server?
Personaly I dont like WR and will never ever play on it, why you ask? same reason as many, it takes too long to LV and i dont want a grind.
This is the way MOST people who would play an emulator feel.
here let me quote my last post since you ignored it.
I have seen thousands of servers come and go and the servers that try to be like live ( yes the old school servers too ) fail 100% of the time. They get people that say "this will be fun" "I will play on that server" but that lasts weeks if even that long, people dont want live they want fast leveling uber items ect. The ONLY "legit" servers to last long are the ones with original content. This is a FACT not a feeling, the proof is right at the login server for you to see.
and you going off about Wiz's english gave me a realy good laugh, it the opisit ( once again ) of what your saying. People who learn english as a second language have a hard time understanding people who have used it there whole life. I will give you an example my human resorces professor gave in class.
cap1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kp)
n.
A usually soft and close-fitting head covering, either having no brim or with a visor.
A special head covering worn to indicate rank, occupation, or membership in a particular group: a cardinal's cap; a sailor's cap.
An academic mortarboard. Used especially in the phrase cap and gown.
A protective cover or seal, especially one that closes off an end or a tip: a bottle cap; a 35-millimeter lens cap.
A crown for covering or sealing a tooth.
A tread for a worn pneumatic tire.
A fitted covering used to seal a well or large pipe.
Chiefly Southern U.S. See eye.
A summit or top, as of a mountain.
An upper limit; a ceiling: placed a cap on mortgage rates.
Architecture. The capital of a column.
Botany.
The top part, or pileus, of a mushroom.
A calyptra.
A percussion cap.
A small explosive charge enclosed in paper for use in a toy gun.
Any of several sizes of writing paper, such as foolscap.
Sports. An appearance by a player in an international soccer game, traditionally rewarded with a hat.
Explain how "im gonna pop a cap in your arse" fits into any of the definitions for "cap"?
People from the USA understand what is mean but people from other countrys dont. I can give you the book name, chapter ect if you would like to educate yourself instead of making stuff up to attempt to bash people with.
thats what i was sayin, they have trouble understanding us
i still think a classic remake would be the ubah rule btw lol
Snootay
07-05-2004, 08:48 PM
thats what i was sayin, they have trouble understanding us
They have trouble understanding you, not us. I've known Wiz for about two years now and have never had any trouble understanding each other's English.
The reason people may seem to have trouble understanding your mastery of the English language is because you butcher it like Uncle Bubba butchers anal virginity.
Memener
07-05-2004, 11:22 PM
LOL my head hurts....
Although, I do have to agree with wiz. I played EQlive for 3 1/2 years was fun. I got 3 lvl 60s. Join EQEMu and played on there servers for 2 days and never went back to live... Its gets old... Its like Unreal in Co-op mod...
Anyway i am noob what do i dont.... I am just a retard.....
Muuss
07-06-2004, 01:08 AM
I played for 3+ years on live, starting pre-kunark, lead 4 chars up to 60 and epic, and enough of them up to 50+ to fill 2 full accounts. I stopped when that damn lvl 65 appeared and finished to ruin all my eqlive fun. Then, I then took a deep breath, and stopped to play till i made a char on WR, I played there for a lil bit more than 6 monthes, and partially rediscovered the fun i had when i was a young human wizzy from Morell Thule.
Even if i rarely agreed with Wiz when we were having issues on WR together, i do have to say here that i totally follow his opinion about the good old worlds, it's just not possible anymore when you have such a background as mine, or his.
In fact, i understood this when velious was released. At that time, a pretty important number of new players joined Morell Thule and started their Eq life, it was yet different to what we, old peeps, known. They wanted all immediately, 90% or more rezz for their lvl 15 war, ports to make WC to Nro, they wanted to access to guild banks, or follow the raids at lvl 30... just because they were seeing lvl 60 players everywhere, carrying epic weaps, etc ...
What killed the 'good old days' is the quality of the pre-velious world, that lead EQ to create more and more expansions, each of them giving more and more power to the players and ruining the previous one. Nah, i really don't see how an experimented player could enjoy spending 10 days to make lvl 1->40, dieing 3 times or more a day, or staying LFG for hours if they know that the server contains high end stuff that will turn to shit what they did for the previous 10 days. The fun of EQ was to discover and learn the world. High end game, certainly much more complex, techically was the only way SoE found to keep their money maker alive. Honestly, expansions past Kunark gave absolutely nothing new, or better, to the game, but just kept players addicted instead of renewing them in a more 'static' world.
This remains obviously a personal point a view, and i do understand that some players like to be tank14 or chain_cleric17, but from my personal experience, only a few of those i know were playing pre_kunark.
even kunark messed up pretty bad, i mean, i remember +15 hp gear being uber, then all the sudden i have my ragebringer with +100 hp, and then by the time velious came out +50 hp gear was like the same price, and there was no reason for plane raids when velious came out
, cause the drops and xp were so ubar
although, i have to say velious is when i really started playing hardcore and had my fondest memories
Although, I do have to agree with wiz. I played EQlive for 3 1/2 years was fun. I got 3 lvl 60s. Join EQEMu and played on there servers for 2 days and never went back to live... Its gets old... Its like Unreal in Co-op mod...
yeah, well who would want to go back to that pos live lol.
unbased promotion?? wth, and the logical fallacy is you quote the very last part, and make it sound llike i said a classic server is the best in the world.
Okay, first of all, there is no logical fallacy or contradiction to suggestive and selective quoting, although I didn't even do that, it's just a shady argumentative tactic. It also has nothing to do with wheter a classic server is better or not, or your bitter little spouts about WR. I invite you to quote the exact passage where I did this.
relorm500
07-08-2004, 03:34 AM
*cry* Wiz...you are GOD of EMU....do you hear me.....the EQEMu god = Wiz.
why? all he said was
1. allakazam has spoiled all content
2. pre-kunark didnt have enuf content
3. pre-kunark was to hard for pussys
i could of told you that and became eq emu king, oh wll to late now =(
RexChaos
07-08-2004, 05:52 AM
why? all he said was
1. allakazam has spoiled all content
2. pre-kunark didnt have enuf content
3. pre-kunark was to hard for pussys
i could of told you that and became eq emu king, oh wll to late now =(
No that's not why anyone would think Wiz was king/god of EQEmu. It's because he has PRODUCED something. When you get around to making something and not just talking about it, people may regard you in the same way. That's all.
napalmsquirrel
07-10-2004, 04:54 PM
:P
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/index.html
:lol:
Melwin2
07-10-2004, 11:11 PM
:P
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/index.html
:lol:
This post is funny and relevant.
Dekar2k4
08-16-2004, 06:57 AM
I have to give props to wiz who stated it clearly the magic has ended for most of us. I recently have gotton the drive to come back to EQ live, and not because I want to waste my money and be "Ghey" But because it was the first MMORPG, I played that I got deeply sucked into, it started with a converation back in 99 with a friend of mine. We were talking about random school things and the conversation soon came to Everquest.
"Wow my friend has a cool new game, and I've spent a few hours on it last night you should join", and slowly the convo enveloped 2 others at our table and soon we began our Everquest journey on Fennin Ro, one of the oldest servers created. It was fairly new back then and I can still remember laughing about previous nights adventures in class next morning talking about our chars camped out in that wierd new zone West Karana or how were hanging out in Aviaks roost.
Everquest for me was magical because of the people I met and the real life friends that played it, no matter what game I will get into EQ was part of my life for about 3 years. Never made it to 50 because I was restless and needed to start new classes everytime but i always found my highlevel fun with guildies or friends of mine that needed someone to play their ____ for a raid because they went off on a date or wherever. My main still resides at 49 Hum Pally somewhere in Karnors Castle (a ghost town most likely by now)
We talk about classic being the best but I see classic as the Trillogy and not just the three main Continents. Luclin broke Everquest in my opinion. With just Classic it would get monotonous and yes the leveling would be tedious as well as I recall all too well the origanal 1-2levels a day treck it sometime taking 4-5 hours just to level from 19-20 or 20-21. With the faster exp and new lands to explore in the Trillogy I think it would be worthwhile once again.
Luclin changed the world and it was the fulcrum of EQ development. There's no doubt in my mind that people would agree when I say Luclin turned the economy upside down, There was a point when Crystal Chitin was the uber shit next to Plane armor, and Quest armor. Spending a full month getting an entire set of this demi-godly armor (better then kunark's deepwater and the like) my once 25k (Ubah rich) armor fell to 5k in one day. Mino axe's became extinct, Ornate Rune blades, Arbitors combine, Nat's 2 hander all became common n00b twinks.
In an instant all hardwork dedicated was wiped out, once someone took a look at the moon and decided hmm a Nexus would be nice to have. EC tunnel deserted to the new found Bazaar. I know I mix a bit of emotion into my post but I think that without emotion of WOW I just recieved my Epic this is great, OMG plane armor, or even a simple omg camping Frogloks for my FBSS paid off jeez the 8 hour camp was hard but we got our belt!! congratz guys. You start to lose what EQ is about for alot of people. I was there when Fennin was decimated by the Ebay and Auction wars. Omg Cloak of flames still sells for 75$?? lets go raid naggy with whatever uber 52's we can muster (A direct quote form a TMO member) "Damn that runed bolster belt netted me a cool 125$" (Direct quote from a DoA member, these two being the best Guilds of the time on the server)
The powerlevel grind led to kill stealing, and clearing out a camp for your guild only with trains. If you weren't in "abc" Guild you weren't going to level quickly unless your class was good at soloing and if you weren't wearing "xyz" armor we don't want you in our party. Some of the newer expansions are foreign to me but from the revisisting of EQ and its Gui enchancements just shows me although the game may be geared toward the higher levels now they still haven't forgotton the perks that make the game enjoyable I like the link system to items, and the Link all for corpse looting, and the maps althogh new to me have proven useful. It's a Catch 22 in my eye for keeping people happy and keeping the community alive.
In order to keep a MMO a MMO you need to impliment grouping and interaction between players as a key role. Yet if you make it too group and interaction orientated then people complain you made it difficult as not everyone is friendly or available when you want them. Soloing to me is like playing a single person offline game. Sure you have to buy a new item from bazaar from someone but hell its not liek used to be where people had a convo and exchanged goods, its about the same as walking up to a NPC, except with occasional Haggling. Omg 10k for THAT! how about a 5k and my Sword of Mourning. Easy enogh but still not a MMO feeling. I welcome the new changes as im sure it will give me alot to do and although I'm still spending money monthly, its a hell of alot cheaper then spending 7 bucks at blockbuster 4 times a week trying to ammuse myself with a video game of my choice (even 25$ for an unlimited pass) or paying 50$ for an RPG I'm going to beat in 50-60hours = week 1/2 and im bored again. I'd like to say Congratz to the Dev's who's made EQEmu a great experiance, (although I still can't login to my own server after following 4 seperate guides.. *sigh* oh well) and Guys, don't lose the magic of a game, once you lose that you slowly lose the will to play.
I have to give props to wiz who stated it clearly the magic has ended for most of us.
the magic is gone period. it isnt around to experience anymore. there has not been a server that came close to emulating what everquest 1999 was. not soe or eqemulator server. (exept maybe that perma death server that had no expansion content omfg that was LEET -pvp and permadeath)
Luclin changed the world and it was the fulcrum of EQ development. There's no doubt in my mind that people would agree when I say Luclin turned the economy upside down, There was a point when Crystal Chitin was the uber shit next to Plane armor, and Quest armor. Spending a full month getting an entire set of this demi-godly armor (better then kunark's deepwater and the like) my once 25k (Ubah rich) armor fell to 5k in one day. Mino axe's became extinct, Ornate Rune blades, Arbitors combine, Nat's 2 hander all became common n00b twinks.
kunark, and velious are the worst offenders for trivializing old world content. i took a break from eq during luclin cause i got fed up so i dont know how bad that was, and im sure the addition of a supermarket instead of player trading helped kill it to. mino axe's went exticnt with kunark and velious. and those other items you mentioned are just some of the uber content that came with trilogy era and killed economy.
kunark came out and had content better than planar armor, which you also got exp while getting because its just alot of farming. does that make any sense? kunark having content greater than the planes? no. but they had to do it. they messed up. get my ragebringer was awsome, probly the coolest quest i did on my halfling. but now i know that epics were a bad idea, and shouldnt of ever come into existance, the original eq team admits the whole epic idea was a bad idea. but the eqlive team makes epic 2.0's lol. theres alot more reasons why i wouldnt want to see kunark and especially velious on a server. my best times of eq are probly during the velious era, but that doesnt mean i think it was the best way to go.
i wont even go into why eq99 > custom-eqemuserver02
shadowchaser
08-19-2004, 08:36 PM
Here is my take: not that we really need to see another.
I play on WR and it is enjoyable, great work Wiz. It is well thought out and put together. I feel comfortable saying it is better than the eq i left at the release of Luclin. <meaning no disrespect: that aint hard>
I think in order to undersand why i would like to see a EQEmu server limited to Original, Kunark and Velious, you would need to know why i left.
I did not leave EQ because i got bored, or because i didnt find end game content. I left because ever time i turned around a new release made everything i had wokred long and hard to acquire... dogshit. And even though i was in one of the oldest guilds on Mith Marr, we were a tight group of friends that didnt want to accept assholes into the guild. Needless to say as the devs wrote more and more to the HUGE groups needed to kill things and the uber items, we lost the ability to compete with open admission 'own the spawn' guilds.
I loved the game, i never lost interest in the 'classic' areas, i am not a power gamer. I was one of the few wizards who went on Hate raids and i love the place <nothign much for me but still fun>
I am looking for a classic server so i can go have the fun i once did, so i can get the items i once had and not have to worry that any amount of work i do will mean a waste of time NEXT expansion.
To be able to get to a mob, no matter how insignificant or important and not sit on a list for days, or have to catch UBER GUILD002 sleeping so i can get a spawn.
I realize that there wouldnt be a huge amount of ppl out there that would play on an EQclassic server. I have hated the mention of SOE or EQ for years. I can name 4 others who were equally pissed off and quit the same time i did for similar reasons. I mentioned EQEmu and got yelled at, but when i explained that sony wouldnt be at the helm and we could make the content static they listened. We want to play the game to its fullest extent before the game went to the dogs, and the spawns got impossible, before the items got rediculous. I think the people who played through all the ludicrous shit would be totally disillusioned and unable to play a classic server.
I understand both sides of this issue, and i hope perhaps i have explained myself well enough to make some sense.
lets start this argument again where i left off.
You said:
Quote:
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Direct attrition.
You then said:
Quote:
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,
I assumed you didn't just drift off completely and start talking about your general consensus. I guess that was wrong.
i still dont know wtf your takling about wiz. wtf is a general consensus?
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
there is nothing wrong with that statement. all it says is that eq99 today would be just as fun now as it was then. and thats true. no one thinks eq99 is the best mmorpg because they were a newb. that argument has been officaly pwned.
your point that pre-kunark eq cannot return does not work. if your point is that WR is bettre than eq99 or eq99 doesnt have enough content or is to hard, i can listen to that
Melwin
08-21-2004, 01:11 AM
lets start this argument again where i left off.
You said:
Quote:
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
Direct attrition.
You then said:
Quote:
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,
I assumed you didn't just drift off completely and start talking about your general consensus. I guess that was wrong.
i still dont know wtf your takling about wiz. wtf is a general consensus?
if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.
there is nothing wrong with that statement. all it says is that eq99 today would be just as fun now as it was then. and thats true. no one thinks eq99 is the best mmorpg because they were a newb. that argument has been officaly pwned.
your point that pre-kunark eq cannot return does not work. if your point is that WR is bettre than eq99 or eq99 doesnt have enough content or is to hard, i can listen to that
"General consensus" means general opinion or agreement.
Your statement is false. I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.
So no, that argument hasn't "officially been pwned".
I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.
why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.
you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.
I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.
why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.
you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.
You're a retard rehashing points that have been pulverized again and again and again, you haven't used a single shred of logic in explaining how to deal with the issues that were brought up and failed to explain how the vast majority seemed to agree with the original points when your only real argument was "I'm right and you're wrong", and constantly bringing in WR which wasn't even mentioned as superior or inferior by anyone except your dumb ass.
Give it up while you're behind. In fact, you're the kind of behind that a person with no legs in a ten-mile marathon being harrassed by a pack of wild dogs while God constantly raises new mountain chains in his path and flaws in the space-time continuum makes him move backwards would exhibit.
Shit, you'd even be behind him.
Melwin
08-21-2004, 04:44 AM
I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.
why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.
you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.
I would just not enjoy '99 EQ anymore, because I've already been there. It's not fun anymore. You can't say whether "better" things have come out or not, because it's a subjective matter.
Either way, this thread is ready for a lock. I see you like to repeatedly run your head against the concrete wall, but eventually the wall will come falling down and then we'd be out a wall on these forums.
Thread will be locked once you post your reply.
Think about how fun Pong was to play back in the day. We'd all play Pong and Pacman for hours on end on our Atari 2600's.
How long do you think you could play Pong now? As long as you played Everquest?
It is human nature to make past experiences fantastical and to romanticize them to the point wanting to recreate them. Unfortunately, you will find that your dreams will become boring quickly. The problem with knowing this, is that you'll never believe it until you try it out yourself.
Good luck.
sorry ace, you loose. do you really think the reason we believe eq99 is superior is because we were new to everquest? you just dont realise how much crap eqlive is compared to 99. as i said a few posts before, that arguement is offically pwned. the reason eq99 would be just as fun now is because nothing better has come around. mmorpg's have not advanced from pre luclin eq. and I DONT FUCKING SAY THAT BECAUSE I WAS A N00B TO EQ. THAT IS NOT WHY ANYONE THINKS EQ99 IS SUPERIOR. NO ONE POST THAT STUPID SHIT EVER AGAIN PLZ KK TNX
before you lock this thread i will organise each point wiz made in this entire thread and my response to them.
1) this is wiz's strongest and main point: I am a dumbass. its his main reason that im wrong. he uses it because i have owned every point he has tried to make.
2) the reason we want an eqclassic server is because we strive for our frist taste of eq and want to get lost in neriak again.
my response: no we dont. we believe eq99 is superior and being a noob has nothing todo with it. and infact most of us were not newbs in 99 and had been playing online games for years.
3)you cant make the feeling of something new with something old.
my response: good thing were not trying to make the feeling of something new. the feeling of something new is not the reason we feel eq99 is superior.
4)allakazam ruins eq classic content
my response: i have never known an eq without spoiler info. if that breaks an mmorpg there is no hope left for an mmorpg to ever please you again. even wr has its own mini allakazam.
5)not enuf content in eq classic,
my response: ok, you can get away with this one.. how much content eq classic has is how much is has, nothin to argue here
6)eq classic is to challenging.
my response: cant argue with you here. it is a challenge not a mindless grind, i wont argue if thats what people want or not.
thats it.. one last question wiz.. do you only think wr is superior because its new content? or do you think it is just superior to eq classic in general? would you have played eq if WR was released in 99 instead of what we got?
Raddiux
08-21-2004, 04:12 PM
Think about how fun Pong was to play back in the day. We'd all play Pong and Pacman for hours on end on our Atari 2600's.
How long do you think you could play Pong now? As long as you played Everquest?
It is human nature to make past experiences fantastical and to romanticize them to the point wanting to recreate them. Unfortunately, you will find that your dreams will become boring quickly. The problem with knowing this, is that you'll never believe it until you try it out yourself.
Good luck.
I can't speak for Pong and Pacman (i'm not that old), but recently me and my friends started playing Mario Bros (the original arcade version) on MAME, and we have just as much fun with it now as we did like 16 years ago. I can pick up old games like Megaman, TMNT, or whatnot, and still find them enjoyable. I still find DOOM just as fun as it was 10 years ago. Hell, I find it better than Doom3 (though thats for a different thread all-together).
I don't believe the issue with EQ is that its old and outdated. I think the problem is that we've all just played the game to death. There is only so long you can eat that delicious chocolate cake before you get sick of it.
With that said, I think recreating classic EQ is still something that can be a lot of fun and popular. There are tons of people out there who have no interest in EQ's current fascination with raids and uber loot, and simply want that oldschool feeling of roleplaying in a fantasy world back. And there are even more who have never even played EQ, and might find EQ's current 5 continents + 1 moon + 20 planes + lost dungeons + pirate gnomes + 65 levels + 2659348442 AA points + god knows what else they come up with, just a bit overwhelming. There is still life left in ClassicEQ - though just not for most of us.
mattmeck
08-21-2004, 04:20 PM
Posted: 07-01-2004 03:40 AM Post subject: The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.
http://www.bossmob.com/emote_deadhorse.gif
Keep movin nothing to see here, let him RIP please
CHowell2005
08-21-2004, 04:33 PM
GIVE ME CANCER NOW GOD.....for the sake of sweet mother mary and joseph can we not just be like hey i like classic eq and hey i dont.....hey lets hug....hey lets go make out.....hey lets go #^&$......alright you guys dont have to go that far...but if you do take pictures....seriously though...just reading this made me angry at everyone who posted an arguement here, everyone should go back and read how asanine you have been...youd kick yourself in the nuts.....MELWIN PLEASE DECLARE THAT LAW OF YOURS AND LAY DOWN SOME DR PHIL GOODNESS
can we not just be like hey i like classic eq and hey i dont
yes. we could. but wiz had to name this thread 'why eqclassic does not work' when he should of named it 'why i think people want to play WR more than eq classic'
Cisyouc
08-21-2004, 06:12 PM
can we not just be like hey i like classic eq and hey i dont
yes. we could. but wiz had to name this thread 'why eqclassic does not work' when he should of named it 'why i think people want to play WR more than eq classic'Yay I caught this thread before it was locked!!
Anyway, he named this thread that because that was what he believe(d). And I tend to, too.
Darkwaters
08-21-2004, 06:53 PM
Holy crap now I wish I wouldn't have read your awesome post Wiz. I feel like shit LMAO
I miss pre-kunark OMG and I'll never get it back. ARRRRGGGGHHH!
Okay now that the entire reason I came here to create a server has been ripped out of my cheast anyone have any ideas how to use my talent in IT to another purpose than continuing to work on my server?
Darkwaters
Holy crap now I wish I wouldn't have read your awesome post Wiz. I feel like shit LMAO
I miss pre-kunark OMG and I'll never get it back. ARRRRGGGGHHH!
Okay now that the entire reason I came here to create a server has been ripped out of my cheast anyone have any ideas how to use my talent in IT to another purpose than continuing to work on my server?
Darkwaters
please explain what exactly wiz's wonderfully insightfull post showed you that made you decide to give up
Darkwaters
08-21-2004, 09:02 PM
I realized how pointless it would be to make my own server. Doing so will inevitably just increase the chance the majority of the populous would leave anyhow due to boredom or something relatively close. There is no way to recreate the awe that was once there in EQClassic. Sad really, not like his post made me think like this it only reinforced the fact that obviously making such a place would be pointless. And once you catered to the populous at which point again you'd lose them to eventual boredom, you still would have changed the EQClassic server.
So pointless to make such a beast fits. Didn't mean to say hey you made me think this way Wiz. I just received a huge reality kick in the nerds after reading the post and thinking about it. LOL
Darkwaters
There is no way to recreate the awe that was once there in EQClassic
why is there no way to recreat eq classic lol, what exactly makes eq classic impossible to recreate? nothing. nothing besides not being able to use the actual old client with old ui, but old ui is not why eq99 is great.
the majority of the populous would leave anyhow due to boredom or something relatively close.
much more likley people would quit because of the hardcore game mechanics and trouble finding groups, the whole server would have to really cooperate to get anywhere on a eq classic server with eqemu server population
Darkwaters
08-21-2004, 09:37 PM
There is no way to recreate the awe that was once there in EQClassic
why is there no way to recreat eq classic lol, what exactly makes eq classic impossible to recreate? nothing. nothing besides not being able to use the actual old client with old ui, but old ui is not why eq99 is great.
I am not saying that there is no way to recreate eq classic as you stated. I said there is no way to recreate the awe or enjoyment that once was EQ99. You cannot tell me that if it was duplicated to the "T" that everyone would be just as awestuck by the grandness that it once was. We've already experienced it you cannot re-experience it the same exact way you did the first time. That'd be like saying I could fuck my first GF over again and it'd be the same even if I could recreate the way she was down to the "T" it wouldn't be the same because I already know what I'm expecting. Maybe putting it this way makes a bit more sense, it does to me anyhow.
the majority of the populous would leave anyhow due to boredom or something relatively close.
much more likley people would quit from it being to hard not being bored
I'll give you that one even though it could have been argued under or something relatively close. =))
Darkwaters
you cannot re-experience it the same exact way you did the first time.
and i dont want to. do you think the reason eq99 soars over modern day mmorpgs and eqlive is because it was new to us at the time? me either.
Melwin
08-21-2004, 10:21 PM
Thread locked.
This is going nowhere and is just breeding grounds for flaming.
My last comment to this will be an amused little chuckle at bbum, with his "crushing" points that oddly enough, noone else seems to see.
Guess everyone else is just a dumbass. :lol:
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