Crit Ratio:

[So_1337]

From the SVN:

Just like Rev 220...

Where did the info come from that Spell Casting Fury only increases chance to hit?

According to Graffe (http://www.graffe.com/AA, http://web.archive.org/web/20040115163723/www.graffe.com/AA/?tier=2&ability=2&show_info=yes since Graffe is down for a bit) only the 3rd rank doubles the damage.

Do we have anything to verify that the damage either is or isn't always 2x?

Decided to bring this here for discussion, since it didn't seem to be getting addressed any other way.

Having checked the actual text on the AA on the link provided, I see no evidence that it increases damage at all, let alone only on the third rank. So far as I know, up until later expansions, it was only possible to increase the frequency of crits, and not the damage that they should do. Every spell critical that I have ever witnessed has been following the lines of 2x damage.

As a necromancer, the critical damage portion of my nukes and lifetaps would always be for double damage. The critical healing portion of my lifetaps would always be for double the normal amount. If I were lucky enough to crit both, I'd wind up with 2x damage and 4x healing.

I'm going to have to side with Romai here, though I do agree that it isn't explicitly spelled out anywhere that's been provided.

Okay, those are my thoughts of things. If things are getting committed that not everyone's agreeing to, let's get 'em sorted out.

[Rocker8956]

I have no clue on the AA so I won't comment on it. However, I know every crit I have seen from my Mage on live is always double damage.

[trevius]

Who is romai1337, BTW?

[KLS]

It was def 33% bonus for every point in fury you got up to a complete 100% damage bonus on live for quite some time.

It's very possible they've changed it but I think it's important to point out that just because the description doesn't says something doesn't mean that's how it actually works 100%.

[Romai]

I've got to disagree. I only ever played a wizard on live and it was always 2x. And even if my memory is failing me, Graffe tends to be very thorough in their descriptions. So if they don't mention a damage boost, I've got to believe that its not there. I did a lot of research before making the change, and I just couldn't find anything to support SCF increasing damage.

[Romai]

Well heres a little more info:

http://magelythings.com/foci_and_crits.html
A normal crit (with any level of Spell Casting Fury trained) adds 100% of the base damage to the final damage

While that is a mage site, it still supports a non-progression through SCF. So at the least, SCF should give an immediate boost to 100%.

I'm going to keep looking to see if I can find anything for a non-aa'd toon

[KLS]

Hey disagree all you want but I have patch notes:

------------------------------
May 11, 2005
------------------------------

*** Headlines ***

-Many quests in city zones that give XP as a reward now give significantly more.
-Four new missions are available that take you back to Qeynos, Unrest, Befallen,
and Hate's Fury.
-Veteran's Rewards will be available on May 13th. You can find out more details about
these rewards here.
-The required levels on many spells level 50 and below have been changed so that all
casting classes will now receive at least 1 new spell every level.
-Great new functionality has been added to the mail system. Some of the major features
are listed below, but also check the bottom of the patch message for details.
-Multiple recipients, including a dynamically generated guild mailing list.
-EverQuest mail forwarding. You can now have your EverQuest mail forwarded to the e-mail
address registered with the station account of the character you are playing. NOTE: you
cannot reply to the forwarded mail.
-New Address Book. You can now setup mailing lists on your client and store your friend's
addresses in your address book.

*** Spells & Skills ***

-Players who only have the first two ranks of the Spell Casting Fury AAs will now do double
damage on a successful spell crit, the same as if they had the third rank.

We can change it since obv. Sony did a while ago. :roll:

I was pretty damned certain it worked 33/66/100% per rank at some point!

[Romai]

Well there's my point. Its an old patch, so it was in while I was playing.

[Romai]

Would it also be fair to assume, then, that since only wizards can crit without SCF, that damage is also 100%? I swear I remember it that way from playing, and it would make perfect sense, but does anyone know anywhere we can confirm that? (btw, if I'm wrong about other classes not critting without SCF, please don't crucify me. I think thats how it is, but I never played another caster :))

[KLS]

I'd say it's likely that it's 100% for wizards since that patch too.

And I sure hope no one feels crucified talking about this! EQ mechanics aren't as well documented as some other games since sony tends to only give out choice pieces of info and the client doesn't show a whole lot either. So the only real way to try to nail mechanics is by talking about them, even if that means some arguing over it. Yet it should all stay civil and friendly =p

[AndMetal]

Hey disagree all you want but I have patch notes:

------------------------------
May 11, 2005
------------------------------

*** Headlines ***

-Many quests in city zones that give XP as a reward now give significantly more.
-Four new missions are available that take you back to Qeynos, Unrest, Befallen,
and Hate's Fury.
-Veteran's Rewards will be available on May 13th. You can find out more details about
these rewards here.
-The required levels on many spells level 50 and below have been changed so that all
casting classes will now receive at least 1 new spell every level.
-Great new functionality has been added to the mail system. Some of the major features
are listed below, but also check the bottom of the patch message for details.
-Multiple recipients, including a dynamically generated guild mailing list.
-EverQuest mail forwarding. You can now have your EverQuest mail forwarded to the e-mail
address registered with the station account of the character you are playing. NOTE: you
cannot reply to the forwarded mail.
-New Address Book. You can now setup mailing lists on your client and store your friend's
addresses in your address book.

*** Spells & Skills ***

-Players who only have the first two ranks of the Spell Casting Fury AAs will now do double
damage on a successful spell crit, the same as if they had the third rank.

We can change it since obv. Sony did a while ago. :roll:

I was pretty damned certain it worked 33/66/100% per rank at some point!

That's the kind of info I was looking for when I commented about the code :-)

I had been over that portion of the code several times, and came to the conclusion that, since Graffe didn't indicate double damage (and at the time the reference was made, that was correct), that it wasn't, and even if 33% & 66% wasn't exact, it made sense.

I don't think it helps that I haven't really played Live since about 2004... but it's all good, we got our answer :-)

Would it also be fair to assume, then, that since only wizards can crit without SCF, that damage is also 100%? I swear I remember it that way from playing, and it would make perfect sense, but does anyone know anywhere we can confirm that? (btw, if I'm wrong about other classes not critting without SCF, please don't crucify me. I think thats how it is, but I never played another caster :))

The best way I can think of would be to create a Wizard on Live (the free trial (http://escapetonorrath.station.sony.com/) limits you to level 10), level them up to 12 or whatever, then start spamming nukes on low level mobs until you crit.

[So_1337]

The base crit ratio for a wizard was 100% even without AAs. I played one on the Combine progression server and specifically remember critting Icestrike (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=377&source=Test) while I was still a lowbie. It would always be for twice the normal damage. (So 32 damage instead of 16.) I used the spell even into the 30s and 40s just because it was so ridiculously mana efficient, even more so when it would crit.

Sad that it took AndMetal's suggestion there to remind me of it, but that's absolutely correct. And I remember critting Conflagration (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=659&source=Live) for 1800.

If anything, I would be that what KLS has posted from the changelog was to fix a bug. Someone with only one or two ranks trained in SCF might've actually seen their damage drop, and then seen their criticals back to +100% damage at rank 3. That would be my best guess.