Metallica

[Merth]

I consider myself to be a pretty big Metallica fan. I didn't even start listening to them until the mid 90's, yet I absolutely love their old stuff. So naturally, I ran out to check out their latest St. Anger album. Little did I know the magnitude of disappointment I would find.

This album ranks among the worst I have ever listened to - of any band. I haven't found single bit of the album worth listening to. I am nearly ashamed to call myself a Metallica fan. It's not that it lacks entertainment value - it is actually painful to listen to.

For me, a metal band should carry at least one of two "talents": good metal or a power voice. The ones that carry both are the really good ones - and Metallica certainly used to fall into that category. This latest album lacks both.

The power voice of Hetfield is gone. I no longer hear the raw energy in his voice. It's as though he started taking singing lessons and has lost the cutting edge he alone once held. His voice used to be so powerful and commanding. In this latest, his voice is just painful to listen to.

The metal is totally lacking as well. I am not a musician, so I don't know how to describe it with the right jargon.. But there's nothing catchy about the guitars in this one. There's no rhythm, no head banging moments, nothing. It's more like a bunch of guitars that showed up in a studio for a tuning session.

When it comes to metal, I think I have a pretty broad range of music that I would consider good. It's hard to find music that I actually don't like. Therefore, it's a really big statement when I find something that sucks. So it's really disappointing to say that Metallica finally falls into this category.

St. Anger SUCKS!

[Farrenz]

All I can say is...sellouts.


Their old stuff is godly, but this new album is agreeably crap. I would have returned this album if Sam Goody would take refunds.

Its been all down hill since the black album.

Make a note: Save the $15 and go buy your self a RATM album.

[Trumpcard]

1st off, coming from an ex professional musician (ok, I didnt make a million doing it, but it paid the rent and the car payment), there is no such thing as a sellout... Its a really stupid term that makes no sense... Who the hell wants no one to like them and for people to NOT appreciate their work???

As soon as a band changes there sound a little and tries to move in a new direction, all the fans start screaming 'SELLOUTS'... What exactly does that mean anyway? You've made a little template for what my music is supposed to be , and if I don't follow it, and my sounds don't sound EXACTLY like the last album, i'm a sellout. Do you know how boring it is playing the same style, the same sound OVER and OVER and OVER again is, and these guys have been doing it for better than 20 years now, don't you think some actual growth as musicians should occur?

I heard the EXACT same stupid comments when the metallica Black album came out. It didnt sound anything like 'And Justice for all', so all the hardcore Metallica fans starting yelling 'Sellouts'.. Same thing with Load and Reload, then again when they did 'Garage Days 2' and the Album with the orchestra.

Who exactly did they sellout to?? Its not like they're doing NSync songs. St. Anger sounds more like their earlier stuff than any of their last 4 albums if you ask me, but still they're sellouts?

Sorry Im raving about this, but people screaming 'sellout' EVERY SINGLE TIME a new album comes out really gets on my nerves, and it doesnt make any sense. By that argument, a band is only true to it's form if they write in 1 vein of music only, and never sway from that pattern at all. If you ask me, that would make for some shitty music. Just as people mature when they get older, so do bands. They change, they have children, they mature, and their music styles and tastes change.

Someone called our band a sellout when we started writing better songs and alot more people started coming to our shows. What use was their in writing shitty songs that no-one likes or wants to hear?? If you want to write your own music to fulfill your own musical desires, theres not really any point in ever playing outside your bedroom. This is a job for those guys, not a hobby. Everyone wants to be good, and to be successful at what they do..

I don't really like the album either, but I don't like the ignornace inherent in the use of the word 'sellout' even more!!! (Not attacking you personaly, that word just really annoys me)

And how could you not call RATM sellouts if you really feel that way?? There new stuff doesnt sound ANYTHING like their old stuff, and they got Chris Cornell for god's sake! LOL.. THats like Public Enemy getting Julio Igalesias as a front man!

[DeletedUser]

I don't really think its just 'sellout'.
Its america, its the new millenium.. these are what we kids have turned into.

SELL OUT! :P


As for sell out, I think your right. Sell out is probably one of the stupidest things i've ever hea... [ sits in the IRC channel and changes his mind ]

[Goauld]

I actually think St Anger is the best they've done since the Black album. JMO

If you ask me, they've just evolved a little. No more big solo's, more a case of riff-rock and it works fer me.

Now an album full of cover versions.....thats a sell-out ;P

[Terminal Delta]

I like Metallica myself, I can play almost all there riffs on my guitar( Hell Im almost like Hendrix...)

As for the new album. Is not bad.. but I say they just should of kept on going as garage INCs direction.
They sound they're trying to be thrash metal with heavy metal. Which doesnt much work....

I do agree St.Anger isn't the greatest, but it did get platinum XP

Metallica is a metal band. No greater.. no less. I think they were just experimenting though..

[a_Guest03]

My girlfriend works at a CD store, and listens to music day in and day out. She likes all kinds of music, and Metallica is on that list as well. She HATES this new album. She makes fun of Lars' inability to play anything worth a damn. She said it's just awful. Coming from her, that's a lot.

I stopped buying shitty CDs, and I stopped stealing music. So I haven't heard it. I'm only relaying the opinion.

[citizen06]

I would say anything pre black album is worth listening to. But if you like old metallica I would recomend: And justice for all or master of puppets. :twisted:

[pogoism9]

She makes fun of Lars' inability to play anything worth a damn. She said it's just awful. Coming from her, that's a lot

Ya know, Its comments like this that make me fall out of my chair laughing.

1) Even the folks that dislike St. Anger are talking about the new found quickness of Mr. Ulrich. Yes, his snare sound is awful, but alot of the album has blazing fast double bass.

2) Same reason why your girlfriend works in a CD shop and they are out making millions.

3) If she thinks its so terrible, buy her a $5,000 Starclassic kit complete with cymbals and shit and tell her to do it better.....


In closing, I only have 3 words.....


SEE THEM LIVE

[Nova_Blaze]

Well i am just adding my 2cps.

I listened to St.Anger and to me there old stuff was alot better. Metallica is a great band but anger was not there best.

[bloodkingg]

Shrug, I like every single Metallica and Led Zeppelin song...I like St. Angers solos though, I like all their songs

[Roecer]

All I can say is... you American ''headbangers'' need to listen to some real music. Listen to some east-Atlantic bands such as Children of Bodom, Amon Amarth, or even In Flames.

AMERICAN BANDS SUCK!

By the way, Metallica literally burned out.

www.metalhq.com

[Trumpcard]

European bands are a joke, even the GOOD ones... They're about 10 years behind the american music curve... Europe is where bands that can't make money in the US anymore stay.. I think Dokken is still touring over in Sweden right now...lol...

There are some great musicians (Sonata Artica), but they still couldnt write a decent song with Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, and Steven Tyler collaborating with them... LOL

[DeletedUser]

afi > all :)

[Sabyre]

Its been all down hill since the black album.

I agree!

What a sellout means to me is a bands decision to move from the essence that made them to a format that will entice more of the populus.

Money Talks

Metallica is big business! There is more money to be made marketing to the pop culture rather than the metal heads. Changing and growing as a musician is wonderful. Changing your whole persona for more money is a bad thing.

Take a band like Def Leppard for instance they have stayed with their format and they still continue to kick ass.

Artist or businessmen?

When you hear metallica on radio stations that play Brittney Spears there is something totally BS about that.

If you call yourself a Metallica fan and you only like post Black album think again. You are not a true Metallica fan. Metallica is raw, in-your-face, kick-your-ass, emotion, and power. Not 4 farts in the wind with dollar signs in their eyes.

Someone turn the lights on!

[Trumpcard]

1st off, I thought Black SUCKED...

Load and Reload were defnitely much better...

A radio station decides what to play based on what their listeners want to hear, the band has no say so in that what-so-ever... I remember listening to Megadeth on the radio back when 'Symphony of Destruction' came out, that was the 1st time they ever got any radio airplay, but I don't recall anyone calling them sellouts... The music was more friendly for the average listener, people liked it, so the radio stations played it... Thats the way the music game works..

What a sellout means to me is a bands decision to move from the essence that made them to a format that will entice more of the populus.


Thats a bit shortsighted... Thats like saying Bill Gates shouldnt try to improve on the GUI of windows because thats getting away from the essence of DOS, which made him in the 1st place... The aim of a musician, whether you know it or not (and I do, I spent a year on the road as a musician) is to be good and successful at what you do. So, to NOT be a sellout, what you are saying is that you pick a select group of people. then you only make music that THEY like, you never try to draw in new people, you never try to improve your music so that other people will like it.. Theres alot of 1 hit wonder bands that fill that requirement. I remember alot of my friends running around yelling 'I'll play what I want, the way I want it ! ' , most of them are digging ditches for a living these days...

I personally think their music is better now than it was (with the exception of Master), but I also don't expect every album to sound like a carbon copy of a song from their last album...

[Sabyre]

1st off, I thought Black SUCKED...

Load and Reload were defnitely much better...

These are personal opinions.

A radio station decides what to play based on what their listeners want to hear

This is simply not true. Radio stations have agreements with record labels. These labels pay the stations for a certain amount of play time. As an example: You own a radio station, You are offered an agreement with a group of labels (Elektra/Asylum included), They will supply you with Promo CD's, concert tickets, posters, x,xxx,xxx amount of dollars, etc. You agree to give new releases of a specific format certain play time. A few weeks before St. Anger is to be released you recieve promo discs and instructions to play track 3, 6 times a day for 2 weeks. Track 5, 4 times a day for 2 weeks etc. You are required to give away promotional copies of the album, etc.

This is to generate sales of the album. This is how they advertise. Yes radio stations play songs based on requests, but new material is distibuted through the labels based on agreements. Have you ever got sick of a song because it was overplayed?



The music was more friendly for the average listener, people liked it, so the radio stations played it... Thats the way the music game works..

Nope wrong again. Although this is a democracy there are a lot of things "the people" will not and can not control. Money talks. Even if the people hate it the radio stations are obligated by contractual agreements to follow the guidelines that the labels set for the particular piece of music.

This is why artists try to get signed by the biggest labels. The bigger the label the more push on sales = $$$.

On the other end of the scale sometimes good music can make a small label a big sucess. <---- Very Rare.

Unfortunatley artist value is usually second to pocket value.

Another point. Americans are very trendy people. They thrive on the next "thing". Example: Vanilla Ice, Mullets, Bell Bottoms. What was once popular looses its luster with time.

Thats a bit shortsighted... Thats like saying Bill Gates shouldnt try to improve on the GUI of windows because thats getting away from the essence of DOS, which made him in the 1st place...

The essence of DOS is in Windows. DOS is Disk Operating System. Its a piece of software that manages the critical operation of a PC. Some examples are:

MS-DOS
Unix
Linux
OS/2
Windows

What Gates did was excellent. He made PC operation easy. Now all people can fully take advantage of all the benifits that computers offer. They way he brought the Graphical User Interface (GUI) together was briliant. Now with the click of a button you are giving the PC command line instructions. He has in NO way strayed from the essence of DOS.

So, to NOT be a sellout, what you are saying is that you pick a select group of people. then you only make music that THEY like, you never try to draw in new people, you never try to improve your music so that other people will like it..

That is not what I'm saying. What I am suggesting is that you stay pure. Do not change your values for the sake of money. Maintain your integrity. Be yourself. If people don't like you for who you are thats ok. Variety is ok. I didn't suggest you select your audience, but that is what Metallica is doing. They are selecting the Pop crowd. It's a bigger crowd with more dollars involved. They are changing their style to suit a different audience. $$$.

Theres alot of 1 hit wonder bands that fill that requirement.

Jimmie Hendrix was a one-hit-wonder!

Some things move me further than others. I feel I have spent to much time on this topic especially considering it is all personal opinion and not fact.

Did they sell out or not?

I feel cheated. But thats just my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me. A simple "thats not how I feel" would have worked.

I hope that no hard feelings come of this.

What a sellout means to me

"ME" being the key word.

[Trumpcard]

This is simply not true. Radio stations have agreements with record labels. These labels pay the stations for a certain amount of play time. As an example: You own a radio station, You are offered an agreement with a group of labels (Elektra/Asylum included), They will supply you with Promo CD's, concert tickets, posters, x,xxx,xxx amount of dollars, etc.

This is also just not 100% true. Though a radio station does make promotional agreements with bands, especially the largest syndicated radio labels, if this were completely the way a radio station worked, then no one would ever be able to request music.. Most radio stations I know maintain 24 hour request lines, and mix it in with their regular programming. Yes, there are promtional agreements with the labels, but if it worked this way in totality, local, regional, and crappy national acts would never get any radio time. Also, because alot of radio stations are independently owned, it is simply impossible for a band / promoter to 'do the rounds' with 18000 independent radio stations, and to pay them to secure air time for his bands. Larger companies do shell out promotional money for their acts, but if this were the way the entire industry worked, only the large labels would ever receive radio airplay.

Unfortunatley artist value is usually second to pocket value

Why shouldnt it be? If you're not doing it for the money, you should never bother moving from the 'amateur' musician to the 'professional' musician stage...

Nope wrong again. Although this is a democracy there are a lot of things "the people" will not and can not control. Money talks. Even if the people hate it the radio stations are obligated by contractual agreements to follow the guidelines that the labels set for the particular piece of music.


This is partially true... A radio station that plays something that people doesn't want to here doesnt get listeners, therefore no promoter would ever pay money for them to promote their music..
Its a pretty fine balance i'd say, folks are pretty finiky about their radio stations.. While it's true that DJ's have almost 0 control of their music, to think that programming directors choice of music is controlled 100% by 'BOUGHT' air time on record labels is also a bit ludicious.. Radio is a business like anything else, but remember the major source of revenue for radio... ADVERTISEMENT... Thats the silver bullet that gives them a degree of freedom with what they play.

The essence of DOS is in Windows. DOS is Disk Operating System.

I would then say that the 'essence' of Metallica is still there in their music.. Loud, distorted guitars, James Hetfields crooning voice, Kirks bluesy pentonic rifts... Did you ever think that when they first came out that maybe they were trying to 'play to the masses' rather than their true artistic vision, rather than making the music they feel they wanted to make? At what point is a band a sellout, and at what point are they a purist? Maybe they are just now playing the music they've spent their entire lives trying to write, maybe the issue lies in the ear of the expectant listener.

He has in NO way strayed from the essence of DOS.

You've obviously never dealt with Unix guru's and commandline nazis..

Actually, linux isnt an Operating system, it's a kernel of an operating system.. Combine it with all the tools and what not, and it's an operting system. (Linux purist hackers are very nitpicky about that note) Im being very nitpicky even bringing it up! LOL


They way he brought the Graphical User Interface (GUI) together was briliant

Actually, most of that was Xerox, then Mac, then Windows... Bill and Co. just borrowed what they found... In fact in the early days, most people screamed 'Windows GUI sucks, Macs are much better'

Now with the click of a button you are giving the PC command line instructions. He has in NO way strayed from the essence of DOS.


To say that a click of the button provides the utility of a specificed command line invocation is also a bit simplistic. GUI tools allow you to do simple invocations, but to do anything right, you still need commandline. Thats why few people in the linux/unix world rely on a GUI. They only use it so they can run 'xmms' and 'xclock'
Alot of those same people are screaming that Windows is the 'bubblegumming' of DOS for the masses. I remember listening to every 'I'm computer illiterate person' complaining about DOS being to hard and too cryptic to learn. I will bet you 5$ I can find threads where commandline purists are screaming that Windows is 'selling out' because of the GUI.. LOL... (probably going to be 5 years old, but what the hey!)

Do not change your values for the sake of money
Relating the music you make, and your values is a wholefully different thing. Maintain your integrity. Be yourself. If people don't like you for who you are thats ok.

You've obviously never tried to sell a song to make a car payment. If you come from an exceedingly rich family, and your success or failure makes no difference whatsoever in terms of your kids being able to attend a decent college, whether or not you are going to drive a ferrari or a taxi, or live in a mansion or a cardboard box, then maybe this is a distinction you may afford to make.
I wouldnt say this makes a person a sellout, I'd say it makes them 'smart'. Artistic vision is something everyone has, but everyone gradually loses once they realize that the musical world is not there to cater to their musicial tastes.

I feel cheated. But thats just my opinion. I'm not asking you to agree with me. A simple "thats not how I feel" would have worked.

I hope that no hard feelings come of this.

I understand completely, we each have and are entitled to our opinions, and I welcome them, whether I agree with them or not.

I would never get offended by someone elses arguements unless they were absuive personally, but that's me. Some people these days don't realize a good discusion can include 2 people that don't agree on something. You will notice that when the argument decays to someone bashing the others spelling...lol... (also a sign of someone that has lost and is unwilling to admit someone else is right...lol...)

Personally, I never feel cheated because I don't feel that anyone owes me anything. I would say cheated would mean that they had been some intention on their part to deliver a product that you wanted to hear. Cheated means they have deliberately misled you.

[Sabyre]

Like I said its personal opinion to me.

Thanks for the great conversation.

[4john]

I dunno,

I used to like metallica,until they ruined our music swapping online that is!!!!!!

It was THEM who started this thing about trading music and stuff that ended it for us........(I know you can still d/l music and all,but its harder to do it safely now)

I dunno.....I say exploit metallica's music for what they have done,i dunno......

John :)

[Jwhite9]

if you really liked mettalica's music then how would what th edo affect how there band sounds and the reason they put an end to napster is that there profits were going down. if everyone gets music for free then how will they get money to make more cds and music videos
it really ticks me off when people start off on how mettalica ruined
naapster. how would you feel if people were just getting your music for free and you werent getting a cent. :evil:

[Rabaril]

What Gates did was excellent. He made PC operation easy. Now all people can fully take advantage of all the benifits that computers offer. They way he brought the Graphical User Interface (GUI) together was briliant. Now with the click of a button you are giving the PC command line instructions. He has in NO way strayed from the essence of DOS.


Don't you mean what Gates stole was excellent? :twisted:

[Trumpcard]

How did he steal it, he bought it ? ( I assume you mean DOS )

http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa033099.htm

Notice that one of the original investors of QDos on with MS-DOS was based went to work for Microsoft ..

If you're referring to the GUI, hard to say he stole it when Apple got it from Xerox in the first place. They pretty much made it Public Domain technology...

[flyrken]

What a sellout means to me is a bands decision to move from the essence that made them to a format that will entice more of the populus.

1984 "Fade to Black" Metallica thought of as evil, sadistic, satanic, they appeared on TV to help explain the fan's take.
"Suicidal, alienated people can relate to this song and feel they are understood and have hope that they are not the only ones feeling this way. quote by fans"

1990-1 "Nothing Else Matters" Metallica wrote a love song, best selling album! I liked them less, and found it so/so.

1995 LOAD: Couldn't find a thing on this album I liked, so I used as a skeet in my backyard after a few drinks. <Pull> <Bang!> <laughing I missed> <again!> I didn't care what people said about them at this point.

From some people's point of view they sold out. My favorite album remains Ride the Lightning. Another example? U2!

EOF

PS: There is alot of music out there, try smaller bands. They don't change alot, they only get better, and appreciate their fans <they have to because the name of their band means nothing>.