DotaQuest early development

[Kayen]

I am the EQ Tactics 'Turned Based EQ' server guy... It is my little side project. http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sho...hlight=tactics

Since I see my name being tossed around in this thread thought I would share some thoughts since I am always happy to see new excited developers.

Your project is ambitious, as a MOBA fan I had considered something similar a while back but my ultimate conclusion was it would be too difficult under the restraints of the Everquest game engine. MOBA's are all built in modified RTS engines which are a much better platform for that type of game play. There are numerous other significant challenges beyond that as well.

However, that in no way implies it can not or should not be done.

Creating a large scale complex server from scratch is very overwhelming and why most don't get off the ground.

Here is your free consultation.

My recommendation would be before you do anything else is to create a single demo zone to simulate a basic PvP MOBA environment.

Have two opposing factions of NPC units that are trying to reach the other side. Set up a system for towers/inhibitors.

Heroes/Champions do not need to be really fleshed out at this point just have a few basic builds set up to test the game play.

Extensively play test the zone till you feel satisfied that the concept will work.

That way you can see if the basic frame work is viable to scale up.

Anyways that is how I would approach this.

Kayen
GM Storm Haven
GM EQ Tactics

[Nerdgasm]

Originally Posted by Kayen

I am the EQ Tactics 'Turned Based EQ' server guy... It is my little side project. http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sho...hlight=tactics

Since I see my name being tossed around in this thread thought I would share some thoughts since I am always happy to see new excited developers.

Your project is ambitious, as a MOBA fan I had considered something similar a while back but my ultimate conclusion was it would be too difficult under the restraints of the Everquest game engine. MOBA's are all built in modified RTS engines which are a much better platform for that type of game play. There are numerous other significant challenges beyond that as well.

However, that in no way implies it can not or should not be done.

Creating a large scale complex server from scratch is very overwhelming and why most don't get off the ground.

Here is your free consultation.

My recommendation would be before you do anything else is to create a single demo zone to simulate a basic PvP MOBA environment.

Have two opposing factions of NPC units that are trying to reach the other side. Set up a system for towers/inhibitors.

Heroes/Champions do not need to be really fleshed out at this point just have a few basic builds set up to test the game play.

Extensively play test the zone till you feel satisfied that the concept will work.

That way you can see if the basic frame work is viable to scale up.

Anyways that is how I would approach this.

Kayen
GM Storm Haven
GM EQ Tactics

Thanks you for responding to our forum, Kayen.

That was our plan, we are FAR from even thinking of an Alpha realize. Like, FAR FAR FAR from it. This is the VERY early DEV stages.

Setting up the first zone is going to be a pretty fun little game. As we've spoken about in our other forums, the tower//inhib would be more directed towards a boss instead of a actual tower, or nexus.

The problem would be the faction versus faction type set up. That is where we are snagged, and is where we thought of a World PvP idea, you know whoever killed the base gets their name on the 'who controls it' for the first two hours, or for the two hours in general, the script would be pretty simple to set up for if the tower dies the item goes to the other person.

However if you know how to do a faction based PvP system. I'd love to get with you and 'pick your brain' so to speak.

[knowom]

Originally Posted by Nerdgasm

Thanks you for responding to our forum, Kayen.

That was our plan, we are FAR from even thinking of an Alpha realize. Like, FAR FAR FAR from it. This is the VERY early DEV stages.

Setting up the first zone is going to be a pretty fun little game. As we've spoken about in our other forums, the tower//inhib would be more directed towards a boss instead of a actual tower, or nexus.

The problem would be the faction versus faction type set up. That is where we are snagged, and is where we thought of a World PvP idea, you know whoever killed the base gets their name on the 'who controls it' for the first two hours, or for the two hours in general, the script would be pretty simple to set up for if the tower dies the item goes to the other person.

However if you know how to do a faction based PvP system. I'd love to get with you and 'pick your brain' so to speak.

Actually I believe we can use certain objects to represent towers/inhibitors/nexus's that could have HP you need to destroy. I noticed in the race's section there are quite a few object type graphics mixed in they'd be rooted in place like we had mentioned. Here's a couple examples that you can check out if you want in EoC sometime in the race view area.

Tower Model (32eight) (this could be a tower naturally)
Portal (329) (this could work as inhibitors stargate style gateways and it would probably look cool)
Mimic (52) (this was a actual mob, but it could still be used for a nexus if we wanted)
PoM Castle (252) (no idea how this looks in game or how massive it is, but it's a castle might work as nexus at least if we can size it)
Chest (37eight) (another chest variation Nexus)
Coffin (3eight2) (this could work as a form of a inhibitor)
Runed Orb (422) (Nexus perhaps)
Dragorn Box (421) Nexus perhaps)
Portal (426) (inhibitor)
Crystal Shard (425) (Tower perhaps, but would probably want to scale the size larger)
Dragon Egg (445) (Nexus really like the looks of this one)
Grandfather Clock (665) (Tower)

There are defiantly a few others as well to pick from, but they are in the race section so they'd work well and would fit pretty well also. These would probably be my top choices.

Dragon Egg (445) - Nexus
Portal (426) - Inhibitor
Tower Model (32eight) or Grandfather Clock (665) - Tower

[lerxst2112]

Originally Posted by Kayen

Your project is ambitious, as a MOBA fan I had considered something similar a while back but my ultimate conclusion was it would be too difficult under the restraints of the Everquest game engine. MOBA's are all built in modified RTS engines which are a much better platform for that type of game play. There are numerous other significant challenges beyond that as well.

LOL's engine is actually a lot more like a MMO or FPS than a RTS although it's really hard to broadly classify engines like that. Having worked on several of each type of game the engines are really similar.

That said the big problems I see with using the EQemu code are the PVP aspect and how to manage creeps. I'd probably start by drastically simplifying the combat code so anything could attack anything and then adding the team based aspect to that. For creeps, leashing, changing how hate works, and handling kills differently seem to be the big things.

That said, you're going to have a tough time since you can't change the client. No locked camera, fog of war, or click to move/attack will keep you from completely recreating something really close to a MOBA, but with effort you should be able to make something fun and unique.

[knowom]

Originally Posted by lerxst2112

LOL's engine is actually a lot more like a MMO or FPS than a RTS although it's really hard to broadly classify engines like that. Having worked on several of each type of game the engines are really similar.

That said the big problems I see with using the EQemu code are the PVP aspect and how to manage creeps. I'd probably start by drastically simplifying the combat code so anything could attack anything and then adding the team based aspect to that. For creeps, leashing, changing how hate works, and handling kills differently seem to be the big things.

That said, you're going to have a tough time since you can't change the client. No locked camera, fog of war, or click to move/attack will keep you from completely recreating something really close to a MOBA, but with effort you should be able to make something fun and unique.

That's actually essentially what myself and Nerdgasm discussed in regards to the PVP aspect. EQ PVP is a bit complicated in part because it was really designed around PVE with PVP a afterthought by Sony. This isn't to say it can't be better balanced, but more that it just generally wasn't well balanced compared to newer MMO's by default. Some of those aspects you mentioned we've been discussing and could pose problems that will need workarounds and compromises. It's won't be 100% like a MOBA in all aspects and really I can't say it was intended to be strictly speaking. It's also meant to still be a MMO and the core of it really is intended to feel like a MMO in mind, but with MOBA game elements in mind that enhance and add new game play mechanics to a MMO.

A lot of the designing for this server we intend to start off rather bare basics and build variety and complexity to it as we go. There are a lot of reasons for approaching it this way. It'll take time to implement everything on such a large scale is one major reason for it. Another is that we can do a better job to maintain and correct balance better if we start off by making smaller changes as we move along. We'd love to provide a lot of variety and complexity, but we're going to try to build and design it steps at a time. Before we start particular portions of development we hash it over a fair amount until we are content with it enough to move forward.

I think if the PVP aspects doesn't pan out it could turn into some sort of a strategic multi-faction based PVE tug of war type thing. The whole escort quests idea could be done on a mass scale around the idea of inhibitor spawns and nexus's that factions try to overtake and control to unlock and gain access to area's. On top of that factions quest could be mixed into the element and it could even be done in dynamic bipartisan inter-related ways between factions. The quests might have some type of auto balancing routines integrated into them and impact opposing factions. It would be neat to in sort of a NBA draft lottery type of randomization way.

Just using inhibitor spawns, nexus spawns, and towers in a zone with zombies for example to create sort of a walking dead type of scenario environment could be a whole lot of fun. Naturally a lot more could be done outside of that like a Lycan vs Vampire power struggle where players could pick a side to help. Plenty of different stuff could be done utilizing inhibitor, tower, and nexus game elements within the context of a MMO.

If we can keep it pretty authentic to the way most MOBA's work great if we need to adapt it to work for EQ that's something we'll need to figure out, but it's not like there aren't options on the table for stuff that could be done. I feel it's worth perusing keeping in mind all the different options and directions it could go despite obstacles that could pose troublesome.