Big Picture Question

Damilis · #1 10-10-2005, 12:38 PM

Well I surely hope nothing I have said has been interpreted as a complaint because I just recently finished reading all the 0.6.2 source code and, man, talk about ingenious.
As for the DB schema changes and why they happen, no explanation needed. As a software developer, I fully understand the evolution of software from planning stages, thru alpha and beta, to release. But, and this is what I have been talking about, as a project reaches closer and closer to release v1.0, aka exits beta stage, the size and quantity of changed drops exponentially. Any form of standardization has to be implemented in the very beginning (which by nature of the EQEmu project and with all reverse engineering endeavors, is impossible) or near the end of beta. This is where I see the State of EQEmu currently.
I have been following the evolution of this project pretty closely for several years now (Since Dec '02) and I have seen the pain and anguish caused by major code and db changes. Wonderful tools laid to waste by the change, entire DBs of custom content now rendered nearly useless, etc, etc. And such is the way of change, not just with EQEmu but with life in general. </Philosophy> As a result, however, I have noticed an increase in reluctance to create new tools/content, especially with the ever present fear of antiquation looming overhead.
Since the devs are soooooo close to having a real release version, I was just 'sticking the feelers out' to see if others think its time to start tossing around standardizations in db format for the purposes of minimizing the impact of change on a server with a custom db and smoothing out data exchange between people. I think that the Emu can benefit greatly from this, and as my knowledge of the deep workings of the Emu grows, so does my desire to spearhead this project.
I do understand that major changes are still on the horizon, I am not that naive, but I had a Chief (yes I am a 10 year squid/bubblehead) who once said: "Revolutionary changes demand an evolution in a Standard." Granted the use was drastically different, he was complaining about Reactor Plant Startup Procedures, but I see it as applicable here.

BUT, if no one gives a squat, ill just standardize myself and shaddap

Thanks for reading anyways.

**fathernitwit** · #2 10-10-2005, 02:51 PM

emu is far from leaving its state of turm oil, I wouldent expect to ever see it stop. The database is far from perfect, and never will be. Theres hundreds of unimplemented features and rewrites of existing features to be done. When the DB changes, it changes for a reason, and a standard is not going to facilitate the change. Even if a 'stable' release was tagged, it would last about a month before one of the devs put some DB changes in, which would not be in the stable branch because its 'standardized', so they go into the dev branch, and the dev branch would become what it is today... the only thing people are using because thats where all the cool shit is, and it cant be merged because it has 'db changes which break the standard'... the story goes on...

since I got here, database updates have been well documented, and scripts are provided to do anything that is more complicated.

Tools are not broken because of database changes (well, they are, but...), they remain broken because the people who release them do not release the source code for them, so they cannnot be updated by the community, or they are written so terribly or in such an obscure language that nobody else can compile them.

Databases of custom content are lost because the people who develop them follow no form or discipline in their records, and as such they cannot be integrated into future databases. Or, they approximate enough stuff to make it undesireable to use them.

Damilis · #3 10-10-2005, 08:59 PM

Hmm... Okay, I understand all that, but it seems that no one is getting quite what I am saying... probably because I am not expressing myself correctly. Since I cant seem to do that, I am just gonna let this drop. Thanks for your comments a great insight though!

sdabbs65 · #4 10-13-2005, 02:31 AM

You can't stop progress if we did we would still be living in caves and banging chicks over the top of there head with clubs.
Version 1.0 of man was sweet back then...

as for the DB... I agree it will never be standard thats why we need people to share stuff like a working EQExtractor and a Working EQBuilder.
but like FNW said ....people stoped developing them and also stopped shareing.
so...we are left with scraps to peace togher.. My database is around 600 megs
just for the spawns... and is still missing a lot of new zones/tradeskill recipies/etc/etc that will never be completed.
but we get what we can working and build it a little more every day.

Dr Zauis · #5 10-13-2005, 05:20 AM

ou can't stop progress if we did we would still be living in caves and banging chicks over the top of there head with clubs.
Version 1.0 of man was sweet back then...

Yep..Progress Sucks!

sdabbs65 · #6 10-18-2005, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Zauis

ou can't stop progress if we did we would still be living in caves and banging chicks over the top of there head with clubs.
Version 1.0 of man was sweet back then...

Yep..Progress Sucks!

Im starting to relate.

Cornelius: If you are caught by the gorillas, you must remember one thing.
John Brent: What's that?
Cornelius: Never to speak!
John Brent: What the hell would I have to say to a gorilla?