Lack of documentation for 0.7.0

cole89103 · #1 04-30-2006, 01:25 PM

whats with the lack of adequate documentation for 0.7.0???

there really isnt even any for 6.6

im sure the forums wouldnt be so clogged up with posts for 0.7.0 help if the wiki was updated to include documentation for the later versions of the emu

attempt37 · #2 04-30-2006, 02:37 PM

Considering the version was released all of 2 weeks ago, why don't you give them some slack. The wiki documentation is written mostly by the people using the servers, not by the creators of the emu. They are too busy actually making this project work. Give it some time. The release isn't even a final version yet, they're still working the bugs out and as the sticky says it is still a beta version. As for 0.6.6 there is more than enough documentation on the wiki under the "ServerConfiguration" which is the last link under General Information in the server admin section. Additionally, cavedude has released an installer that will install the servers for people. The problem is that no one bothers to look at these things before they come here, and if they do look, they don't bother to read the sticky posts when they get here which answer a lot of the questions being asked. How many times does the community have to say that you can only use either the Titanium client or the 9/13 patch to play on the emu before people start searching?

cole89103 · #3 04-30-2006, 03:47 PM

most devs never put a release live without some form of documentation to back it up notice how most people keep asking the same questions over and over? a it of documentation might be a plus and help with basic things... I write php and mysql and perl for that matter now that in mind i never release software even in a beta stage without documentation... and i dont quite think this server 7.0 is anywhere NEAR ready for the beta stage given the ammount of bugs, more like a pre alpha or alpha version, thing is most people ironicly DO Read the wiki there is just barely anything of any use in it...

paaco · #4 04-30-2006, 03:53 PM

Read the stuff for version 0.6.5 in the wiki. Most if not all of it is still relevant in an 0.7 install. Also I don't know what makes you think the wiki has almost no useful information, your crazy. Unless you have a very abnormal question between the forums and the Wiki, 90% of the time the answer is here.

attempt37 · #5 04-30-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cole89103

most devs never put a release live without some form of documentation to back it up notice how most people keep asking the same questions over and over? a it of documentation might be a plus and help with basic things... I write php and mysql and perl for that matter now that in mind i never release software even in a beta stage without documentation... and i dont quite think this server 7.0 is anywhere NEAR ready for the beta stage given the ammount of bugs, more like a pre alpha or alpha version, thing is most people ironicly DO Read the wiki there is just barely anything of any use in it...

If you think that there is barely anything of use in the wiki, then you haven't bothered to read the wiki. I thought you were originally complaining that there was no step by step walkthrough for setting up a 0.7.0 server, but it seems that what you were complaining about was that there was no information at all. That is not true. Everything you need to know in order to play on or create your own server, whether it be 6.6 or 7.0 is there. All the information for installing perl and mysql is there. All the links to programs that would help you tweak quests or create items is there. The questions that keep getting asked over and over here are for the most part answered in the wiki. People just have to be willing to read the documentation, not just their titles. Granted there are questions asked on these forums that are valid, like the questions about bugs that just cropped up with the new 7.0 version, but as I said before (and the front page of eqemulator.net says) the version was released with bugs. The reason it was released at all is so that people could get back to using the emu since it was still working on the 9/13 patch that no one can really get a hold of legally.

All that said, I'll repeat myself again, all the documentation needed to set up a server is in the wiki, people just need to be willing to read the documents and not just the titles.

#6 05-01-2006, 12:21 AM

We have 2 developers working on this project....yep thats correct, 2.

Would you rather get work done or have them spend time idiot proofing all the information?

All the information anyone needs to compile / modify the code, start and run a server or just play on someone elses is there if you bother to look.

And just FYI almost everyone who comes here quoting there experience arent even out of highschool yet.

Once you have been here for more then a couple weeks you will see how things are here. Till then ether leave or stop complaining about this 100% free service. Not one person here is being paid to do it, sorry it isnt to YOUR standards.

cole89103 · #7 05-01-2006, 12:48 AM

First of all ive been out of highschool 11 years and college for 6 years
secondly i run my own business, so kindly keep your condescending remarks to yourself. Me personally id liek it to actually WORK completely seems you are going the route soe does insead of fixing whats wrong you go and pop out a new verson with even more broken then there was before and then push it out to a live release. now lets take a look at this situation 2 developers ok so why not focus on fixing whats broken and gettiing everything that is already there WORKING and tested extensivly before making it live then ontop of that adding a more broken stuff to it... gotta eat the meat and veggies before the desert. and you have way more then two devs because its open source (Means you got anyone who can code also working on it fixing bugs that should have already been worked on)

Ive been here long enough to see you admins jump peoples shit for anything just cause you dont like what they have to say... or they say it in the wrong place ( And everyone btches about reading the wiki... heres a thought make it more userfriendly and with a better navigation then there is presently and make it a bit more detailed) And you wonder why your little project stays little*RME*

paaco · #8 05-01-2006, 01:14 AM

Cole if you had bothered to read the documentation when 0.7 was released you would have seen that it was buggy code at best. It even said if you wanted stable with less bugs stay with 0.6.6 for a while. 0.7 was released so more people could at least enjoy playing around with the emu because it brought Titanium support. Nowhere does it say, 0.7 brings perfect bugless support for Titanium. A lot of us don't mind a few or even a lot of bugs. For me it's about the learning experience that comes with messing with these servers and changing them to your likeing. I have learned more building my own server and playing with the source code than I ever would looking through tutorials on Google all day. And had fun while doing it.

My Suggestion would be, if you don't like the way this community is run, find a new one and go bitch at them for not being up to your standards.

kripsinkurehall · #9 05-01-2006, 01:19 AM

I'm sorry Cole, however even I could get a server started and running fairly well with using just the wiki information. I do have an advantage, being in the IT industry and being able to troubleshoot alot of my own issues. However, the information IS there if you look for it. The documentation for 0.6.5 works for 0.6.6 and 0.7.0. Heck even the 0.6.4 documentation, which is excellent, is a good starting spot for the later versions.

As for your comments about putting out a new version without fixing the bugs in the old version maybe you don't see the importance of putting out version 0.7.0. With this done, they can easily focus on content and bugs without having to worry about staying compatible with ANY client other than the fresh install client out of titanium. I also remember that when they said version 0.7.0 came out that it was extremely buggy, and that it would take time to fix those bugs. Even FNW has admited that a couple bugs they thought were fixed with 0.7.0 and titanium were indeed not fixed.

You compared this to SOE, keep this in mind before you compare this project to SOE again. SOE makes money off of what they do. They charge for the game and for the subscription fees. It's SOE's JOB to make it work and when they don't they deserve any fuss they get from their customers. EQEmu is doing this for free, and they don't need to do it at all. Keep that in mind. If you are here looking for simply free Everquest, then in my opinion you are here for the wrong reasons. However, if you are here for possibly a better Everquest down the road, then welcome.

As for only having two developers and this project being open source, the biggest problem I can see with this community is that people don't share openly. This renders your open source arguement mute. I myself am not a programmer, but I help in the ways I can help. One reason I've kept my EQ account active is to collect information for the database projects, which I need to submit in the near future.

I hope you don't take this as an attack but as a well thought out response to some of your grievences.

resnovich · #10 05-01-2006, 01:25 AM

This is just a thought... I've been out of high school for 9 years. Spent all of it fighting for our country and I stumbled upon this emulator just a couple weeks ago.
I had a 6.6 server stood up in about 3 hours and my only problem was being able to log in because of client issues.
I searched and searched and could not patch together a working client to save my life but I kepy searching anyway without intruding on the forums those questions that are not allowed (I read the damn rules... oh my god).
When 7.0 came out I jumped for joy and went and bought a copy from Walmart... and I hate Walmart.
Had a 7.0 server up and running as long as it took to install the client.
I have used your login server and I have used a minilogin server. I have even virtualized the server and have it running in a VMWare instance. Now I am working on a patching mechanism.

Wait... the point I forgot to make... I didnt bug anyone, I read the wiki and forums, and I respect the work that others are doing so that I can play for free.

To those that can even think of complaining... STFU and enjoy the game or go back to SOE.

Resno
Hall of Heroes, MT

cole89103 · #11 05-01-2006, 01:27 AM

now heres the ironic part that noone considers here ( by the way i said they wer elike sony in terms of not developing it in the most logical way)

fedora, freebsd debian and scores of other linux/unix and software for those os' =free noone gets paid for the work cause its all open source and 95% of it contributed material from the community ( But they still take pride in their work and dont use that its free as an excuse for shitty attitudes or code)

frankly the worst problem i see other then the devs not you knwo developing it just adding more broken stuff to it, is their attitudes, you guys need a reality check try being more f'ing polite to people dont ban them for not reading every word that spews from your finger tips, when someone asks a question dont treat them like a moron for not reading the wiki... so what its f'ing free that dont mean you hve free license to be assholes about things, if you dont like doing the work DONT Do it let others step in and take the project over, but dont push your bad attitudes and authoritarianisim dictatorship urges out on people who gods forbid might not be as "Talented" as you are

paaco · #12 05-01-2006, 01:37 AM

I've never seen any of the admins or mods say anything rude to someone that didn't deserve it on these forums. But the point is, if you have valid questions noone minds answering them, hell I have asked a ton of questions and either been given an answer or pointed to the wiki. But again if you are looking for near bug free and people that will cater to your every need when you need support maybe you should just sub to EQLive. And even with EQLive don't expect great support, I remember on there sending in /petitions that took over a week to get responded to. If your question on here takes over a couple of hours you either had a very dumb question or a damn good one.

cole89103 · #13 05-01-2006, 01:49 AM

go look at the "Idiot posters" forum that in and of itself is totally rude...

ive spent a great deal of time pouring through the wiki which has to be one of the moe un-userfriendly documentation methods ive seen in a while... and all the bugs ive come up againt ive had to figure ways to fix on my own and have done ok for the most part got a few issues beyond my control however besides that im doing rather well.

The point is if the wiki is so great for 7.0 thenw h is it people gota ask wuestions like "Does db.ini even get read?" therein lies the problem there is this hunk of half working code out with nothing specific to it in the way of documentation and im surprised someone hasnt noticed the ranger spell bug error that gives " you cant see target... your spell was interupted" Everytime you try to cast a damage spell on them

kripsinkurehall · #14 05-01-2006, 01:50 AM

Honestly Cole, you're the only one I've seen in this thread having an attitude. Also, the moderators and devs almost never give someone an attitude unless someone posts a question that has been asked and answered a thousand times. That's why there is a search function for the forums and the wiki. 99% of the questions asked have already been answered before. However, even if a moderator or dev do give someone an unwarranted attitude here on the forums, remember it is EQEmu's forums. They can do whatever they want with it.

Again you use open source as your arguement and again I'll say, it doesn't help with most of the community does not share with each other. There are a few that do indeed share with the coumminity, and do an exceptional job of it. In your last open source arguement you even say that most of the linux flavors have a majority of the projects material come from the community. So like I said in my original post, your open source argument is mute.

One a side note, for someone who supposedly runs his own business, you sure don't present yourself like a business owner. I'm sorry if that comes across as a flame, but it just fortifies my comment at the start of this post about you being the only one in this thread with an attitude.

At this point is sounds more like you are just here to argue with everyone in this thread, who I will say again, keep telling you the information is in the wiki. If you find it disorganized you are in the minority I believe.

I pray that this thread gets locked soon, to end this useless thread. I'm done posting on this personally. I tried to help and point you in the right direction.

cole89103 · #15 05-01-2006, 01:52 AM

lol refer to my last post about the "idiot posters" forum