Help Needed - Mob Modeling

[Windcatcher]

WOW! I hope you didn't think you had to spend money on this, though those sound like great toys to have anyway -- I hope the wife/gf understood (grin). I cant wait to see what you come up with.

I've written four new OpenZone tutorials for mob modeling with Anim8or, but when I finished them I realized that the process was way too tedious for my liking (I usually take some shortcuts like modifying the .AN8 files directly, but they won't do for a tutorial). I've decided to make some enhancements to my software to try to make things easier:

1. Expand OpenZone's .AN8 import ability so it can handle grouped objects (partially done, can load groups as long as they aren't rotated)

2. Expand the client so it will also look for objects and creatures in separate .XWF files in the zone's .XWA archive (done; if the .XWA contains objects.xwf and/or creatures.xwf, it will load them as well).

3. Add force-loading capability to the client when dealing with .XWA files (done, but untested; requires an upgrade to OpenZone first).

4. Change OpenZone's export to .XWA so it puts objects in objects.xwf and creatures in creatures.xwf rather than putting everything in a single .xwf file.

5. Add .AN8 export capability to OpenZone. This is good to have in general but part of it is also necessary for step #6.

6. Add tools to OpenZone that tackle some of the more tedious parts of mob modeling, such as copying a model, removing all variants, copying an object to make a variant, etc. These need step #5 above since they'll involve modifying Anim8or files.

7. Rework the tutorials to use the new OpenZone features.

This will probably take a few weeks, but the results will be worth it. I can use whatever you make without all this, but these changes will make it easier for everyone else to take all of the needed steps to make mob models usable. If you want to see the models I've already made, they come with OpenZone 7.6 in the /library/creatures folder (.AN8 files are Anim8or files).

[GeorgeS]

No worries, after I sold the 98 LS1 vette, I had a few bucks to spare. Selling it made her happy and I could buy all sorts of stuff - that made me happy. I actually found her using the pc more now!

I also bought a touchtablet 2 years ago, but found it a bit clumsy for details. I am still learning the art of texturing (if there's such a thing).



When I get a prototype model ready, you can then let me know what changes need to be made. I understand humanoid models - 2 arms and 2 legs spread apart is standard. Whether you need them triangulated or not is simple for me. I can triangulate as the last step. Non humanoid models are one of many that I am working on. snakes, and bats for example, latter have wings which flap and snakes wiggle around. I guess the animation should be easy for those.



GeorgeS

[GeorgeS]

So far so good. Spectre's, and snakes are textured and done. I tried working on the frog and had real difficulty finishing the head. So far I am modeling these with some difficulty, but texturing is a real challenge. I found texturing organics pretty hard and was wondering what your work flow is.


GeorgeS

[Windcatcher]

I usually use CorelDraw for the basics, just so I have the right things in the right places and with the right colors, and then I use Paint Shop Pro for touch-up work. Unfortunately the best I can get with this method is what I included with OpenZone. Using my method works much better for things like clothing, where I can layer things and build clothing textures that reflect the cloth layers that make them up.

[GeorgeS]

I'll be looking forward to the help file.

So far, here's my progress:

1) 4 Froglok's done some with weapons (not sure if you need them equipped...)
2) 4 Snake models - done
3) 2 Spectre models - done, still being textured
4) 5 Rats fully textured - done
5) 3 Bat models - not done yet
6) 12 spiders several different ones made all textured - done
7) several Beetles - currently doing these
Lion/Tigers in queue
9) Human models (still thinking how to best do these)
etc..

Still would need to know a few things

Where do you prefer the axis center of each model? (Feet level, body level)

Size - I gues I can scale these to a given metric

Quads? - I box model using quads only. No one uses tris anymore, except for game output since most games only accept tris, or at least triangulate. What's your thought?

Textures must be in .png .bmp? in x^2 X y^2 I resume?
What's the largest texture size you can use(512x512)?

What about the export format? (I can do .3ds, .obj, maya/wavefront, .cob, .x, etc..)

As you can see there are many work flow things I would need first so when I create the exports, the models are almost ready for you out fo the 'box'


GeorgeS

[Scorpious2k]

Originally Posted by GeorgeS

So far, here's my progress:

1) 4 Froglok's done some with weapons (not sure if you need them equipped...)
2) 4 Snake models - done
3) 2 Spectre models - done, still being textured
4) 5 Rats fully textured - done
5) 3 Bat models - not done yet
6) 12 spiders several different ones made all textured - done
7) several Beetles - currently doing these
Lion/Tigers in queue
9) Human models (still thinking how to best do these)
etc..

WOW!!! Awesome!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing all this

[Windcatcher]

Wow, that's amazing!

I don't need mobs carrying weapons, as the rigging process will place phantom bones at the hands, the shield point on the arm, etc. The client looks for bones with special names to figure out where to place things like weapons and shields and how to orient them.

The axis center should be at feet level, though it isn't all that critical. When I rig it to the skeletons the skeleton base will be the real point of origin. Quads are okay, but bear in mind that OpenZone will convert everything to triangles when it exports. The file format requires triangles. As for export format, it has to be something that Anim8or can import. Other than that, I don't care which format you use. Likewise, size isn't all *that* important as I can rescale in Anim8or. I think my half-elf model is around 55 units tall, if you need a rough scale (OpenZone scales everything down by a factor of ten when exporting creatures, so 55 units in Anim8or will become 5.5 units in-game -- the reason for this is because of the way Anim8or handles bone thicknesses).

Textures need to be a power of 2 on each side. I'd prefer that they not get too big so as to not use too much texture memory when used in-game. I don't know if you're using a single texture for entire models or multiple textures, but I'm much more concerned about total size in bytes of all textures than the size of individual textures. I'd definitely recommend not going over 512x512 in any case as I want the client to run on older hardware. Also, textures need to be able to be loaded by Anim8or. I know it can't handle 32-bit .BMP textures, for instance, though it loads 24-bit just fine. I prefer .BMP or .TGA in any case, but I don't know if Anim8or can load .TGA (I've only tested it with .BMP files).

One thing to bear in mind is how the client handles variants. For instance, if you look at my goblin model, it has four variants, but the important thing to take note of is that they all use the exact same mesh -- only the textures differ. The client requires this if you want to have a creature race have several variants (body types). The Sony client is the same way, by the way: if you use a different mesh then it has to have an entirely different race ID (such as how Kunark goblins differ from old-world goblins).

Another thing that I should mention involves texture filenames. They should follow the same general naming convention as live textures use: for instance, a lion texture might be something like lioch0101.bmp, where the first three letters denote the model, the next two denote a body part, and the last four denote player faces (only used on special player models), texture variants, pieces of body parts, etc. My creature textures that come with OpenZone should serve as examples, and somewhere in its help file is an entry that describes what each of the numbers mean. It's not a catastrophe if you don't use this naming convention, but it means that I'll have to rename each texture and do it myself (and if you're using a single texture for the entire model that's fine, too, but you *have* to use separate textures for separate variants or it won't work).