Would you like to see a legit server?

[exdruid]

Why 30? What makes level 30 different from level 1? You're still trying to kill mobs for exp and loot. Instead of trying to score a cloth cap and rusty 2h you're trying to get higher level items. The game doesn't change, just the items.

Why are classes unblanaced before/after/during a given level? You can modify the stats, spells and items at will. There's no reason to use the default specs.

All in all, this mindset will destroy a server. This is NOT Sony's EQ. We could all be a single class with every ability if the admin felt like making it UO-ish. Who says that there can't be lower level 'raids' or dynamic content? The client itself doesn't care what level or class you are, that is determined by the server. Saying that the game 'starts' at level X or with class Y simply doesn't apply here.

This mindset is why no one really wants to play on a legit server. A new world to explore and advance in is nothing compared to the draw being level 65 and having ub3r l3wt has to people still play EQ Live.

[Slayer02]

exdruid, if you don't let people have the items they want and be able get to each other quickly, whats the point? Remember, our servers cant host 2000 people like verants and have 50 people in every zone. I never said I would use #level read my post thoroughly

[Slayer02]

Also: You know why higher levels are better? Because there fresh and new, most of us have destroyed crushbone time and time again, but not all of us have raided ssraeszha (sp?) temple, or the plane of air, you see? Exploring a unknown world and fighting rare and unusual creatures IS EQ, people DONT want to go fight the orc pawn they have already killled 9999999 times in EQLive, they want the stuff they have never seened/killed before

[IAkc7wzl]

Originally Posted by Slayer02

Also: You know why higher levels are better? Because there fresh and new, most of us have destroyed crushbone time and time again, but not all of us have raided ssraeszha (sp?) temple, or the plane of air, you see? Exploring a unknown world and fighting rare and unusual creatures IS EQ, people DONT want to go fight the orc pawn they have already killled 9999999 times in EQLive, they want the stuff they have never seened/killed before

but that is what the non legit servers are for to level up and what not it's up the play how they play.

if I am going to play a legit server (ie the origal consept just like liveEQ) I want to start at level 1 and work up other wise what is the point realy becouse sa soon as the mobs and other stuff is figured out ie getting almost just like EQlive then it would be noce to have servers that alow every thing like current servers do. and also at our finger tips legit server that you play the games as intended. between the 2 sets you coud start out what ever you whant or do it the hard it's up to you.

once you start out players with bunch of stuff and higher lever your server is not a legit server becouse you would not be playing the game totaly as intended.

so all the poeple that say I want a legit server but I want to start out with X and X well your conderdicting your selves.

here is the consept deff. of legit server "a EQemu server that in almost in all ways emulates SOE servers"

[Slayer02]

*sigh* You DO have a point

[exdruid]

Originally Posted by Slayer02

Also: You know why higher levels are better? Because there fresh and new, most of us have destroyed crushbone time and time again, but not all of us have raided ssraeszha (sp?) temple, or the plane of air, you see? Exploring a unknown world and fighting rare and unusual creatures IS EQ, people DONT want to go fight the orc pawn they have already killled 9999999 times in EQLive, they want the stuff they have never seened/killed before

I'll say it again: This is not Sony's EQ. Aside from the models, textures, and sounds, the game is pretty much completely scriptable. When WR comes back up, I encourage you to check out Unrest on that server. Same models, same textures, but a VERY different dungeon. Complete with wandering mobs and custom spawn points, it's fun even for people who have spent countless levels in Unrest on EQ Live.

Oh, and as I said before, including ANY of the mentioned commands (#zone, #summonitem, #level) removes legit status from a server. #scribespells and #setallskill are pushing it, but in general don't affect gameplay too much. If people refuse to play on your server because they don't start at level 30 and get to #summonitem, then they're scrubs from EQLive and are not interested in legit play. If they want to be 65 and solo Trak then there's 5-10 other servers up that will allow them to do that.

[Slayer02]

You have a point, I was thinking of somee new ideas for my server but im not a coder, put I will be putting in some new quests and trade skills and stuff...

[hydrocyanic]

less lvl = less balancing issues
we all know its a different game for EQ at different lvl and in no way we will be able to compose something totally different in the time, unless until next year
how hard for a legit person get full set of ro(or similar) at lvl 30 and full spells? i lvl'ed a war to 27 in 6hours(not trying hard enough :( )
i have said many times that the #command should be off(in one way or the other), but with the skill, armor, spell at 30
it simply make the game easier to progress and open less zones as the game goes
if you start at lvl 1, few months later then you will still need to keep them up which would waste up your space, that makes the game take less server space too.
try think of lvl30 as lvl1, where you start ok? its the same shit but with minimal equipments, like how naked you are facing a fire beetle at lvl 1
or make it start at lvl 20 since 1 to 20 is nothing anyways(i have 6chars 50+, 2 are 60s)

also, i dont see how i am contradicting myself, lvl30 w/ro(or 20 w/banded(or plate, etc etc))(make the newbie stuff no drop) and shits is same as lvl1 naked, both of them are crappy ok? you will still be crushed by a mob thats 1 or 2lvl higher than you, see what i mean?

its less of a balancing work and server load and makes the game progress faster(fewhours?...)

making it lvl1 means you will have to waste your time in the lower lvl again since there is no grouping or techniuqe required to play in the lvls anyways, lvl1 is basically slaughtering the yard trash infront of the city for hours, fun? you can't change much in lvl 1 cuz everything is too darn low to modify to make it reasonable, have you been playing the eqlive from 1 to 10? killing rats, orc pawns fire beetle over and over for hours? fun?
and for lvl30 there are much better zone connections than a lvl 1 can ever get
(good)FV/DL(uber zone on the wiz port)/LOIO/FM/OT(bad)/KC(high end zone)
thurga/GD/velk(high end)/EW/kael(uber zone)/CC/IC/ToFS
nexus/SH/etc etc(open it like a web)
this way you wouldn't need to change too much to actually make the game to work
with zones you can make all the people closer together(to create economy and groups)
of course you can make it a lvl 1 zones back and forth, but as server goes, there will always be lvl 1 that eat your server load who will be at the newbie zone for long time
last question, how is it contradict the idea of legit server?
unless you don't get what i mean

< - lvl1 legit hater

[hydrocyanic]

another question, sorry i didn't read your message carefully
the game is DIFFERENT from lvl 1 and 30, as well as 30 to 50 and 50 to 60 and 60 to 65
would you need group at lvl 1? 10? these lvls are basically a waste of time
10 to 20? abit different since you would need a group, but still a waste of time to lvl
20 to 30? the game starts to have class development(paly get better heal, sk have a tap useful, wiz get better nuke/snare, druid become a soloer, buffer instead of a cleric, cleric is the main healer finally, war can tank like a tank now, monk can kick like a monk instead of switching shits every few lvl), the different use of classes starts to widen apart, how are you going to do that in lvl1? pal/sk/war/rng/rog/mnk are the same, nec/wiz/mag/enc are the same and clr/shm/dru are the same, hell all classes are the same crap at lvl 1 anyways

as for central zone, i made 3paths already and by their default mode are suit for 20 to 30 in every which way(thurga path is not for 20 though, unless change abit)

and you mentioned about the loots, full suit of crap is same as naked, but different is that you are facing different mob

WR is nice, but an idea of going thru 1 again is meaningless, exp curve in eqlive for 20s or 30s are great

sorry, but at lvl1 there is no space to modify a game, if you read the forum in WR the change in classes are odd(ae fear? shm cheal?...), although some are good ideas

i have never say anything about following the same stuff EQ is made, just start like EQ and change it as we progress instead of going through the 1 to 10 or 20 again, you won't change anything on these lvl, how is WR different from EQlive in 1 to 10? same shits on slaughtering yard trashes

sums it up since my writing is too messy:
lvl1 legit is no different from 30(or any lvl higher than 20)legit, but advantage is here:
-less zone loads when game grow bigger
-better zone connections(suit for pvp or pve as well as story lines)
-classes have different use instead of tank/healer/caster
-less trouble on modifying the game
-doesn't waste as much time
-the game DOES change from 1 to 30...
paladins are paladin, not a war/clr combo, sk is sk, not a war/nec combo, but what lvl1 to 20 or whatever lvl tells me is that pal is a war/clr and sk is war/nec, etc etc

like i said, either have all the stuff in bag upon character creation(lvl/skill/spell/armors) or have a gm to summon the armor for you
make sure the armors for starting classes are no drop though
you won't be able to #anything, the people who are using eqemu are mostly people who played eqlive for long time anyways(few newbs)

what mindset? copying eq? how so? how are you going to make a paladin emu different from eq? it will either take months to figure the class balance again or it will never happen, but like you said, we can script the whole thing again, however, don't waste time on 1 to 10 or 20 or whatever again, those lvls are closer to single player game than MMORPG

i get your idea of changing the game, problem is time, there is no way you will be making everything new but model and shits, WR is no different from EQ at low lvl, any games at low lvls are no different from other, look at other games like AC or AO, how are they different at lower lvl but killing junks around their city? why would people want to repeat again?
balancing every class again is a ridcolously load of work there, whos gonna make quests? events? how are people going to play when the class they play are not finish? raiding at lvl 1? 10? HA! adding a spell or skill every lvl? ...
your idea is good but they are in no way working unless time is given(3months min) for a server to playable, leave the old stuff from EQ and add stuff to it, EQ itself is a good game already but lack of stuff on different places(quests, low end weapons, tradeskill, class balance)
unless you have a new engine of everything, then thats a new game

how am i contradicting myself? lv.1 naked and rusty is as shit as crappy equiped person at 30, they will both get destroy by mobs 1 or 2 lvl higher, why would a grown up adult get kill by a rat when he got a sword? or orc pawn who wander around mindlessly
and sorry, but when lvl 30 is a trash for the mob around you, you are the same as a lvl1 naked, but with group you can kill them, unlike lvl1 where you use a rusty and slaughtering around to kill time, you can't change the lvl1s game

i never said you would be able to summon item of your choice, either the armors are premade for the lvl, or with a min. pts you are given and chose the armor that suits you around it(rygorr, ro, blessed knight for pal, etc etc) of course you can't get a goldenrod at 30, that would be BS, get my meaning? your idea is way off from mine from your arguement

Oh, and as I said before, including ANY of the mentioned commands (#zone, #summonitem, #level) removes legit status from a server. #scribespells and #setallskill are pushing it, but in general don't affect gameplay too much. If people refuse to play on your server because they don't start at level 30 and get to #summonitem, then they're scrubs from EQLive and are not interested in legit play. If they want to be 65 and solo Trak then there's 5-10 other servers up that will allow them to do that.

sorry for repeated idea, just rambling with ideas and then type them down

[exdruid]

First off, thank you for itemizing your post. It makes it MUCH easier to reply.

-less zone loads when game grow bigger

If you cannot support a full spread of players, then you didn't plan correctly. One zone can easily support 20 levels of play. That's only four mandatory zones, plus two towns. Six zones are needed and the rest are gravy for the sake of variety.

-better zone connections(suit for pvp or pve as well as story lines)

Zone connections have nothing to do with levels. It's simply a graphical link that suspends disbelief. Hence, in WR the Kerra Isle entrance can be linked to Unrest.

-classes have different use instead of tank/healer/caster

A level 30 group will have the druid/shaman healing unless a cleric is present. A level 1 group (or any group for that matter) has the same dynamic. The differences are more apparent at higher spell levels, but it doesn't affect the abilities of each individual. All that is affected is what you NEED (ie, a cleric and a warrior) and this should never come up in a properly balanced server.

-less trouble on modifying the game

If you resort to cheap fixes to cover up the fact that you were too lazy to balance classes or create decent content, then you might as well just add in the # commands. The only people the server will attract will want those.

-doesn't waste as much time

I've gone through 1-11 and 1-15 on the WR, and I sure as heck don't consider it a waste of time. It was fun because the admin made it fun. It probably would be a waste if the designer got lazy.

-the game DOES change from 1 to 30...

So far the only reasoned offered for this change involve the phrase "But on EQLive..."
Fundamentally the game never changes. That's up to the server. I'm sure we'll eventually see a few servers totally tuned for solo play. We'll also see servers set up to be group-only from level 1 onwards.

paladins are paladin, not a war/clr combo, sk is sk, not a war/nec combo, but what lvl1 to 20 or whatever lvl tells me is that pal is a war/clr and sk is war/nec, etc etc

Paladins, SKs, and especially Rangers can affect agro control in a very powerful way. They also add staple spells (Snare) that help the group. They can do this at every level. Once again, it's up to the admin(s) to make sure that every classes is wanted in a group.[/i]

[hydrocyanic]

god, i love debate
First off, thank you for itemizing your post. It makes it MUCH easier to reply.

-less zone loads when game grow bigger

If you cannot support a full spread of players, then you didn't plan correctly. One zone can easily support 20 levels of play. That's only four mandatory zones, plus two towns. Six zones are needed and the rest are gravy for the sake of variety.

*guess what, if a zone loads 20lvl, its a junk zone, with less zones in mind to start with, you can expand better accodingly


-better zone connections(suit for pvp or pve as well as story lines)

Zone connections have nothing to do with levels. It's simply a graphical link that suspends disbelief. Hence, in WR the Kerra Isle entrance can be linked to Unrest.

*you are right, but mines are pre-made based on the eqlive which would require less brain storm to screw up

-classes have different use instead of tank/healer/caster

A level 30 group will have the druid/shaman healing unless a cleric is present. A level 1 group (or any group for that matter) has the same dynamic. The differences are more apparent at higher spell levels, but it doesn't affect the abilities of each individual. All that is affected is what you NEED (ie, a cleric and a warrior) and this should never come up in a properly balanced server.

*sorry, no, how can a cleric snare? he slow?, a warrior heals? LoH? HT? abilities of a class are learn from experience(lvl) which higher lvl will have less struggle to build the class(there is only one path for a class anyways) at lower lvl you only need a dru/shm or clr for heals(lvl1 to 20ish) where as your lvl goes up, cleric is the the only class that can heal properly(unless you are 30 in a camp of 20s...), i said before, either you will need months of time to have everything sketch, or it will never be made, WR is no different from EQlive if you look closely, only few additions spells which helps or useless, some of them breaks the class quite abit too(all spells within the period of a debuff will crit innate on a mage?...)

-less trouble on modifying the game

If you resort to cheap fixes to cover up the fact that you were too lazy to balance classes or create decent content, then you might as well just add in the # commands. The only people the server will attract will want those.

*no, its different, zero #command, everything past the char creation will be legit, only different is that you will have a unique class of your choice that doesn't over lap others too much at the start, like a lvl1 mnk/war, etc.. low lvl game is a slaughter fest and you can't change too much from it, you can't raid a mob for 2mins at low end, caster will oom, tanks are dying, raid wipe, not even waves of mobs, lack of abilities of lowbies on a raid mob will be a zerg raid, tell me how much different is WR(or make one up w/ examples) than EQ at lvl 1 to 10?

-doesn't waste as much time

I've gone through 1-11 and 1-15 on the WR, and I sure as heck don't consider it a waste of time. It was fun because the admin made it fun. It probably would be a waste if the designer got lazy.

is there anything changed other than slaughtering trash mindlessly? i don't see how it is different, rats, bats, snake? same thing, bandits? orc? same thing, changing the names/zone lvl, etc are good idea, which you will need to do so for any legit server anyways

-the game DOES change from 1 to 30...

So far the only reasoned offered for this change involve the phrase "But on EQLive..."
Fundamentally the game never changes. That's up to the server. I'm sure we'll eventually see a few servers totally tuned for solo play. We'll also see servers set up to be group-only from level 1 onwards.

paladins are paladin, not a war/clr combo, sk is sk, not a war/nec combo, but what lvl1 to 20 or whatever lvl tells me is that pal is a war/clr and sk is war/nec, etc etc

Paladins, SKs, and especially Rangers can affect agro control in a very powerful way. They also add staple spells (Snare) that help the group. They can do this at every level. Once again, it's up to the admin(s) to make sure that every classes is wanted in a group.[/i]

*the difference is the skill you acquired that you should have as a pal/sk/rng/mnk/rog/....
those times are waste of time, there is no character development during those period, melees are melees, not tank/dps class/CC class, casters are casters, not nec/enc/wiz/mag, etc etc


a lvl 20 default should have gotten something like full leather(dru/mnk/bst) banded(shm/rng/rog) plated(pal/sk/war/clr) and robe classes, tune the stats all you like, if you want solo game, make it /shrug

i am not requesting for full suit of VT armors at lvlx0, i just want an armor that suit my need to at least protect myself and with the skills that i should have for my class, say.. 20 with plate, 30 with ro, 40 with ro w/ haste 50 in dw armor w/ better haste, 60 in full set SS/kael, as well as the spells that define my class, like heals, stun, buff for paly, sow buff ds for rng, as well as skills, like track, hide/sneak, flying kick(skills for monks are total BS before FK...), war get ripotes, etc etc(pal is not a LoHable war, either as 1heal cleric at lvl 1 to 10), those shady lvls can be skip at once instead of going back again

i use pal b/c i have a 63 in eqlive, i can use a monk or war or wiz or sk if you like, all are 50+ and a 60, lowbie guild though, only few hours a day(3-)


ohoh, mentioning time.. not everyone has the time to play hours a day

[exdruid]

*guess what, if a zone loads 20lvl, its a junk zone, with less zones in mind to start with, you can expand better accodingly

So a zone as giant as gfay, tox, the karanas, or just about any outdoor kunark zone is 'junk' unless it supports a very small number of levels? In a server with a max number of players that will virtually never go above 100, I don't see why anything would be a junk zone. While we're on the subject, just what is defined as a junk zone?

*you are right, but mines are pre-made based on the eqlive which would require less brain storm to screw up

Once again, the arguement here is that a lazy admin wouldn't have to put as much thought into a server. That's not exactly a good thing.

*sorry, no, how can a cleric snare? he slow?, a warrior heals? LoH? HT? abilities of a class are learn from experience(lvl) which higher lvl will have less struggle to build the class(there is only one path for a class anyways) at lower lvl you only need a dru/shm or clr for heals(lvl1 to 20ish) where as your lvl goes up, cleric is the the only class that can heal properly(unless you are 30 in a camp of 20s...), i said before, either you will need months of time to have everything sketch, or it will never be made, WR is no different from EQlive if you look closely, only few additions spells which helps or useless, some of them breaks the class quite abit too(all spells within the period of a debuff will crit innate on a mage?...)

I honestly have no idea what the last part meant. I happen to play a mage on WR. I doubt you'll find anyone who will say it's no different from EQ Live. Try playing on it sometime, if it ever goes back up.

*no, its different, zero #command, everything past the char creation will be legit, only different is that you will have a unique class of your choice that doesn't over lap others too much at the start, like a lvl1 mnk/war, etc.. low lvl game is a slaughter fest and you can't change too much from it, you can't raid a mob for 2mins at low end, caster will oom, tanks are dying, raid wipe, not even waves of mobs, lack of abilities of lowbies on a raid mob will be a zerg raid, tell me how much different is WR(or make one up w/ examples) than EQ at lvl 1 to 10?

Once again, and this still has not been answered, why can't the classes start out unique? Everything will overlap eventually, but there's still nothing that says 'Level 30 is where the game starts.' The spells, classes, stats and abilities are not hard-coded into the client. You might as well pick any arbitrary number and say that the game starts at that level.

is there anything changed other than slaughtering trash mindlessly? i don't see how it is different, rats, bats, snake? same thing, bandits? orc? same thing, changing the names/zone lvl, etc are good idea, which you will need to do so for any legit server anyways

Dragons, demons, gods... Kill, loot, and repeat. This is how EQ is. While that can be changed to some degree, it's just how the game is played. Citing 'raids' or 'epic encounters' is pointless, as these can be done easily at lower levels. This is one area where WR shines. Once again this is sounding like an arguement for wanting uber characters. Level 1 is not inherently any more or less fun than 65.

*the difference is the skill you acquired that you should have as a pal/sk/rng/mnk/rog/....
those times are waste of time, there is no character development during those period, melees are melees, not tank/dps class/CC class, casters are casters, not nec/enc/wiz/mag, etc etc

Last I checked, and my character is only 15, Wizards did one heck a lot more damage than I did. Enchanters could certainly buff better than I could. Necros could kill more efficiently with less agro than I could. It's been this way since level four.

a lvl 20 default should have gotten something like full leather(dru/mnk/bst) banded(shm/rng/rog) plated(pal/sk/war/clr) and robe classes, tune the stats all you like, if you want solo game, make it /shrug

Thinking back to release, that's insane. Maybe full rawhide, with a few bits of banded and a fine steel weapon. That was before the days of twinking began in full. Quite frankly, I'm not upset that I don't meet up to the standards of EQLive's world. I've got a +2 INT dagger (high teens rare mob drop in WR Unrest) and a +10 Mana totem (drop from an uncommon named kobold in WR Tox) and I'm damn proud of them. I'm still wearing my newbie robe, though, as I haven't gotten a cloth shirt yet.

i am not requesting for full suit of VT armors at lvlx0, i just want an armor that suit my need to at least protect myself and with the skills that i should have for my class, say.. 20 with plate, 30 with ro, 40 with ro w/ haste 50 in dw armor w/ better haste, 60 in full set SS/kael, as well as the spells that define my class, like heals, stun, buff for paly, sow buff ds for rng, as well as skills, like track, hide/sneak, flying kick(skills for monks are total BS before FK...), war get ripotes, etc etc(pal is not a LoHable war, either as 1heal cleric at lvl 1 to 10), those shady lvls can be skip at once instead of going back again

So you want to skip both half the levels of the game, as well as getting an incredible collection of armor. Once again, why not just enable #level and #summonitem? Imagine EQ twink-free, and then try to imagine how unbelievable that setup would be.

i use pal b/c i have a 63 in eqlive, i can use a monk or war or wiz or sk if you like, all are 50+ and a 60, lowbie guild though, only few hours a day(3-)
ohoh, mentioning time.. not everyone has the time to play hours a day

Once again, EQ Live doesn't apply here. I personally don't have a whole lot of time to play, but when I do play I hardly want to start out with it all. Accelerated experience curving off into the teens helps with those first few levels, and the removal of 'gravy' exp mobs helps with the rest. I hardly want to miss out completely on 60 levels of content in order to be uber on day one.

[Syntaks]

I feel like I'm watching a tennis match...


:lol:

Personally it looks like a debate between instant gratification or realism (for lack of a better term)

If you build it, they will come. People will flock to the server that most meets their needs. So make youur version of the VISION (tm), and wait for the people to come.

[hydrocyanic]

Originally Posted by exdruid

*guess what, if a zone loads 20lvl, its a junk zone, with less zones in mind to start with, you can expand better accodingly

So a zone as giant as gfay, tox, the karanas, or just about any outdoor kunark zone is 'junk' unless it supports a very small number of levels? In a server with a max number of players that will virtually never go above 100, I don't see why anything would be a junk zone. While we're on the subject, just what is defined as a junk zone?

*when the zone is too large, it causes lag, junk zone i meant that the lvl difference of a zone is too great, you mentioned a zone of 20lvl difference putting in, that kind of zone is useless, if a big mob got lose from a wipe and wander to the newbie side, players has no chance of winning, its not a challenge, its a slaughter fest

*you are right, but mines are pre-made based on the eqlive which would require less brain storm to screw up

Once again, the arguement here is that a lazy admin wouldn't have to put as much thought into a server. That's not exactly a good thing.

*it you still put as much thought in the server, but the time where there is nothing can be change are wasted

*sorry, no, how can a cleric snare? he slow?, a warrior heals? LoH? HT? abilities of a class are learn from experience(lvl) which higher lvl will have less struggle to build the class(there is only one path for a class anyways) at lower lvl you only need a dru/shm or clr for heals(lvl1 to 20ish) where as your lvl goes up, cleric is the the only class that can heal properly(unless you are 30 in a camp of 20s...), i said before, either you will need months of time to have everything sketch, or it will never be made, WR is no different from EQlive if you look closely, only few additions spells which helps or useless, some of them breaks the class quite abit too(all spells within the period of a debuff will crit innate on a mage?...)

I honestly have no idea what the last part meant. I happen to play a mage on WR. I doubt you'll find anyone who will say it's no different from EQ Live. Try playing on it sometime, if it ever goes back up.

*i played once, only from 1 to 4 but the game play is the same in WR, slaughtering yard trash in the newb zone and roaming mobs around, doesn it not?

*no, its different, zero #command, everything past the char creation will be legit, only different is that you will have a unique class of your choice that doesn't over lap others too much at the start, like a lvl1 mnk/war, etc.. low lvl game is a slaughter fest and you can't change too much from it, you can't raid a mob for 2mins at low end, caster will oom, tanks are dying, raid wipe, not even waves of mobs, lack of abilities of lowbies on a raid mob will be a zerg raid, tell me how much different is WR(or make one up w/ examples) than EQ at lvl 1 to 10?

Once again, and this still has not been answered, why can't the classes start out unique? Everything will overlap eventually, but there's still nothing that says 'Level 30 is where the game starts.' The spells, classes, stats and abilities are not hard-coded into the client. You might as well pick any arbitrary number and say that the game starts at that level.

how are you going to make the class unique at the start? you haven't answer that either, i said hp is too low, no skill, no spell, no ultity items for them to make them a seperate class from others

is there anything changed other than slaughtering trash mindlessly? i don't see how it is different, rats, bats, snake? same thing, bandits? orc? same thing, changing the names/zone lvl, etc are good idea, which you will need to do so for any legit server anyways

Dragons, demons, gods... Kill, loot, and repeat. This is how EQ is. While that can be changed to some degree, it's just how the game is played. Citing 'raids' or 'epic encounters' is pointless, as these can be done easily at lower levels. This is one area where WR shines. Once again this is sounding like an arguement for wanting uber characters. Level 1 is not inherently any more or less fun than 65.

no, you get my meaning wrong, lvl1s are simply killing mindlessly, how are you going to change it? it goes for same for 10 or 20, you DON'T need anyone during those times, mana/hp aren't enough to last for a min per fight, either you kill or get kill, how is it fun? its impossible for low lvl
and i am not talking about anything past 30, and i have said 30 is just a imaginary number you can plug it in from 20+

*the difference is the skill you acquired that you should have as a pal/sk/rng/mnk/rog/....
those times are waste of time, there is no character development during those period, melees are melees, not tank/dps class/CC class, casters are casters, not nec/enc/wiz/mag, etc etc

Last I checked, and my character is only 15, Wizards did one heck a lot more damage than I did. Enchanters could certainly buff better than I could. Necros could kill more efficiently with less agro than I could. It's been this way since level four.

15 is close to 20 than 1 eh? there we go

a lvl 20 default should have gotten something like full leather(dru/mnk/bst) banded(shm/rng/rog) plated(pal/sk/war/clr) and robe classes, tune the stats all you like, if you want solo game, make it /shrug

Thinking back to release, that's insane. Maybe full rawhide, with a few bits of banded and a fine steel weapon. That was before the days of twinking began in full. Quite frankly, I'm not upset that I don't meet up to the standards of EQLive's world. I've got a +2 INT dagger (high teens rare mob drop in WR Unrest) and a +10 Mana totem (drop from an uncommon named kobold in WR Tox) and I'm damn proud of them. I'm still wearing my newbie robe, though, as I haven't gotten a cloth shirt yet.

don't matter, do what you like, full set SS at 20 or 30 or 1piece of banded at 20, its up to the admin

i am not requesting for full suit of VT armors at lvlx0, i just want an armor that suit my need to at least protect myself and with the skills that i should have for my class, say.. 20 with plate, 30 with ro, 40 with ro w/ haste 50 in dw armor w/ better haste, 60 in full set SS/kael, as well as the spells that define my class, like heals, stun, buff for paly, sow buff ds for rng, as well as skills, like track, hide/sneak, flying kick(skills for monks are total BS before FK...), war get ripotes, etc etc(pal is not a LoHable war, either as 1heal cleric at lvl 1 to 10), those shady lvls can be skip at once instead of going back again

So you want to skip both half the levels of the game, as well as getting an incredible collection of armor. Once again, why not just enable #level and #summonitem? Imagine EQ twink-free, and then try to imagine how unbelievable that setup would be.

those half of the lvl only take mostly a day, the other half will take months to get, the curve of lvl is exponential, those armors are incredible?
i was just giving an example of what armor are on the character creation, make what you like, you can say a 50 can have full piece of ro, etc i didn't say this is what a server should go right?

i use pal b/c i have a 63 in eqlive, i can use a monk or war or wiz or sk if you like, all are 50+ and a 60, lowbie guild though, only few hours a day(3-)
ohoh, mentioning time.. not everyone has the time to play hours a day

Once again, EQ Live doesn't apply here. I personally don't have a whole lot of time to play, but when I do play I hardly want to start out with it all. Accelerated experience curving off into the teens helps with those first few levels, and the removal of 'gravy' exp mobs helps with the rest. I hardly want to miss out completely on 60 levels of content in order to be uber on day one.

it applies, only to a degree, and you answered the reason why i want to start a lvl other than 1

I hardly want to start out with it all. Accelerated experience curving off into the teens helps with those first few levels, and the removal of 'gravy' exp mobs helps with the rest.

first few lvl of the game is meaningless, its a waste of time and server load, there is no creativities in those lvls, zero.
maybe 30 is abit too high, whatever, this isn't my point, either as what starting armor they should have have any place in the arguement, either as the admin are lazy or not
the skill of a paladin isn't just a war with LoH or cleric with a sword, they are paladin
taking away those shady lvl of time are nesscesary, during the lvl in WR, i see NO difference from EQ, same old craps

for the spell crits, go to their forum and look at new spells given to each class


to syntaks:
my idea isn't about instant grafication like getting uber instantly, i just want to skip the shady lvl that doesn't have any meaning of the game(1-10 or 20 or 30 or whatever) yeah, in reality people start from sketch, but is this reality? so if the game get too real i will have to play 1year to get to lvl 10, then by the age of 60 i will finally be wiping.. hmm.. some shissar in the grey, oh wait, i am taking example of EQlive, but where else can i take example of?

you can make a raid(or group/etc, anything but solo) in lvl10 or 20 or xx, but you can't even have group at lvl 1 to 10

exdruid: can you tell me how you can set up anyting but solo at 1 to 10?, don't tell me partner or group though, something else that make the game different from EQlive, not just mob/zone

[exdruid]

Originally Posted by hydrocyanic

exdruid: can you tell me how you can set up anyting but solo at 1 to 10?, don't tell me partner or group though, something else that make the game different from EQlive, not just mob/zone

So you don't want me to say solo, and grouping isn't allowed. With those options cut out the most you can do is stay at the character select screen.

Also, it bears mentioning that with the exception of Mages, Necros, and Druids, soloing 1-10 is not an efficient activity. In today's Live world full of twinks and babysitters it is, but it sure wasn't like that before.

As for ways to encourage different types of play at early levels, you could simply rewrite the spell db for early levels to make all the classes more interdependant. This would be doomed to failure though, as there only six types of spells. You could also retool the mobs to require groups and then put a huge exp bonus for grouping. This would be defeated by a low (or spread-out) number of players.

As I've said before, picking an arbitrary level does nothing. It just becomes the new starting level. Taking it all from Live (which seems to be the basis of this whole debate) I could say that Shamen have definitely not come into their own yet at 30. Therefore the minimum level needs to be 34 (all effective pre-50s core spells obtained.) Wizards only really shine post-50, so we'll need to up the minimum level to that. What about disciplines? How uber is too uber? What would be done to combat the massive riches gained by selling off the new 'newbie' equipment and deleting the character? What happens for the higher level encounters when you NEED a cleric and one is not online?

In the end, your scenario still contains flaws in class balance (due to the starting level and low player count), economy, and equipment distribution. Not surprisingly, by basing your world on EQ Live's rules, you've taken on all it's major flaws.