Rudeness

[Trumpcard]

I go to lunch and come back and there are 3 pages of new responses on the pages.

As far as einstein, the software engineer's analysis of the code...

I'm a systems engineer so lets look a little at the code analysis, and let's discuss the history of the project a bit. EQemu is rooted in a project called Freequest, and it began LONG before Ethernal quest. I don't have any issues with Zordon's work, I think he's done great given the box he put around the project, but other than the packet structures (which mostly come from showeq data), I highly doubt theres much in common between the 2 projects, and from what I've seen theres not.

We use linked lists so obviously we must be using their code? A high caliber software engineer like yourself must know that it's a fairly common programming construct, so how do you figure it was taken from them? Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us. I've been working with dev access for 8 months, and I can tell you that I haven't seen anyone MENTION EthQ in the coder circle, much less look at any of their code.

As far as the project taking a nose dive, the project nose dives because no one works on it, not because people dont USE it... 99.9% of the people leech onto the project and dont offer anything in return, not even a single post, so what loss is there if they stop using it?? We're not getting popularity points for people using it.

The patcher was a bad idea IMHO in the 1st place, I knew that once it was there, people would use it EXACTLY the way we told them not too, then this whole situation would occur when the patcher finally died.

And since you're such an expert on our code and EthQ's, I've noticed that you havent offered a single piece of code contribution to the project....

Thats really the 1st post thats annoyed me, because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance.



[quote]And some of you that release your programs putting your name on it and claiming you created it, or even source files, grow up and learn to program. Stop claiming others work as your own

[Acolyte]

that may violate any applicable laws

I don't see anyone breaking any laws? Go cry over your spilled milk somewhere else :( !

[Zern]

Originally Posted by Acolyte

No where in my post did I say it was OK for me to do anything but not OK for someone else to.

You are correct there sir. But you don't always need to bluntly say things to get your point across. Enough of this talk with you, if you wish to continue this talk feel free to PM me if it will keep you entertained, I know it will for me.



Hogie ...


I see now with the patcher, where the money is. Had a friend just suggest this but, perhaps it would be better to create a one time zip that people can download? Would save on bandwidth if they had the files that are needed to work with EQEmu in one file that would not be neeeded to be downloaded everytime they ran EQLive.
Could even iclude an *.bat file to start up EQ so they don't need to run the patcher to log on. Yes I'm aware some don't read instructions, and then fill up your boards with help regarding information they should know if they read it. Or even just forget the .bat. Create a tiny .exe that finds the installed path and then go from there but again just more suggestions.



-Agreed, HD space is cheaper than bandwidth, refer to suggestion above.


Well, the source. Also makes sense now if both groups started off with the same base code. Yes, I see how they are more paranoid with their information and stuffed it in some .dlls. But again base source both start with, will look alike, I apologize.


And for the other applications, I was not talking about EQEmu, more or less the other applications (3rd party forum) floating around. I have looked at the source for some that are released and they do look very similar. Nothing a night or two of cleaning up, adding your own personal style to give it a "it's my work" look.



Mattmeck, want a cookie?

[Acolyte]

Oh and Trump:

Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us.

This had me crying laughing IRL.

[a_Guest03]

Seriously, my lungs can't take this. :lol: Anyway, the zip thing is out. patcher was an attempt to force people to be legitimate, by proving that they owned the files that were being upgraded. The problem with a zip is that you can't control it. I keep bitching every time I see that eqfix.zip floating around. If I were an admin, I'd issue one last major warning, ban all posters after that, and edit the links out. Call me hardcore, but I don't screw around with that stuff.

Patcher was never a good idea, and I shared TC's views about it. It was created to temporarily fix a problem, and that problem was that eqemu versions were released more slowly than eqlive.

When I started following this project, it was December of 2001, and I lurked for a long time. I remember waiting forever to use any eqemu after a patch. At one time, it was months and months at a time that you couldn't use eqemu. And I was content to wait, and read the changelogs in anticipation of the next great thing.

It's now 6/03. If I had to wait 3 months again, it wouldn't be a hassle. The fact of the matter is that there are punks out there who want a solution in 6 minutes. 6 friggin' minutes. I understand that there are outliers to every population, both good and bad, and that these people are destined to exist. I don't have a problem with that. It seems that a lot more people (not relatively, just numerically) are in that bad group, and it wears on the original devs, who haven't had as much time to recruit the good group. There are a lot of great people in eqemu. There are a lot of new people who need their hands held. These people are just fine in my book. But the people who have their hands held and demand immediate solutions to their immediate needs over and over, and don't follow protocol and then try to assault their helpers, well... they deserve some punishment. I say that if Hogie wants to make an example of the one that pissed him off, it's his place to do so, to ensure that others understand the consequences. It's understandable that rumours start about negative events (that eqemu wanted to charge you to use it... that's a misinterpretation of Hogie's frustrated ramblings). All I ask is that you keep your minds sharp, and try to understand the motivations of the leaders of the project. They do not attempt to harm you. They do not attempt to charge you. They only want everyone to have a good time. So try to have a good time, and stay out of trouble. Be patient. Good things will come.

[vetoeq]

Originally Posted by Aspirax

"I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose."

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?

Or is the "dish it out, but cannot take it" attitude supported by the community as well?

No, they are not acting the same way if you take the time to look at it in context. Hogie, Trump, A_Guest have all done a hell of a job contributing to the project, while the person this was originally directed at did exactly ZERO, actually...less than zero as it took time and some sanity to sort through his posts and type in: "Read the README and post in the proper forum."

"but leave the damned Devs alone. when you start donating 100 bux a week to THEIR project then YOU can have your say, otherwise piss off"

I guess you are not familiar with the constitution of the United States. Specfically Amendment #1.

This pertains only to the governments ability to stifle free speech. You cannot come into my home and start preaching and be protected by the first amendment. I suggest you read the constitution and the ancilliary works before throwing things around.

[Zern]

Originally Posted by Trumpcard

I go to lunch and come back and there are 3 pages of new responses on the pages.

As far as einstein, the software engineer's analysis of the code...

Thanks for the compliment, I like it. ... Einstein the Software Engineer's has a nice ring ... :lol:

I'm a systems engineer

Hats off to you, oh mighty one.

so lets look a little at the code analysis, and let's discuss the history of the project a bit. EQemu is rooted in a project called Freequest, and it began LONG before Ethernal quest. I don't have any issues with Zordon's work, I think he's done great given the box he put around the project, but other than the packet structures (which mostly come from showeq data), I highly doubt theres much in common between the 2 projects, and from what I've seen theres not.

Thank you for the information, as I have not followed this project since the beginning, have no clue where most of the origins started from (odd what you just mentioned is not posted in the about but again who really wants to know that much history of the game, right?)

We use linked lists so obviously we must be using their code?

Now where did I mention or hint to a linked list being code copied?
Seeing how we are both "Software engineers" or like to think we have that title, you would know a linked list is obsolete. If you need references to why, I direct you to my good friend, www.google.com and do some research. Assuming here so don't get all girly like on me, I assume you are not one of those developers who love to cling to a language and refuse to see anything better past what it is. (For the slow readers that don't understand what I'm pointing out, refer to our friend: the linked list).

Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us.

Point fingers? Feel threatened Trump? Sit down take a breather, you and I both know if Sony really wanted they would've shut down this project and all the others by now.

I've been working with dev access for 8 months, and I can tell you that I haven't seen anyone MENTION EthQ in the coder circle, much less look at any of their code.

Good to hear.

As far as the project taking a nose dive, the project nose dives because no one works on it, not because people dont USE it... 99.9% of the people leech onto the project and dont offer anything in return, not even a single post, so what loss is there if they stop using it?? We're not getting popularity points for people using it.

Yet again, PLEASE (cannot stress this enough) READ what I said. It would go into a nose dive not because people DO NOT WORK on it, but because of system related problems which would cause files to be corrupted, hard drives having to be formatted, etc and without the right "patched(older version of eqgame.exe)" client they can't sign on into the worlds. Learn to read? :lol:

The patcher was a bad idea IMHO in the 1st place, I knew that once it was there, people would use it EXACTLY the way we told them not too, then this whole situation would occur when the patcher finally died.

Agreed, one person can ruin it for others, but in this case more than one did.

And since you're such an expert on our code and EthQ's, I've noticed that you havent offered a single piece of code contribution to the project....

Hmm, granted I didn't give out my source code, which I'll explain in a moment, perhaps you should search my old posts? I did help with code for the locked doors granted it was not my original code but I did touch it up *GASP* like you guys did with a base code. Wow surprising.

And you're absolutely right, I wouldn't and wont give out any of my source. I asked countless times before for help with not so minor details in IRC and all I would get back is crappy attitude responses. Now tell me, after getting this vibe of "f off" from project leaders, why would anyone want to contribute code? And as far as I can tell my server ([LEGIT]Memories of Vex) had the most bug fixes on ALL of the servers. Laugh if you want but if you want proof, pop on Krushers and talk to the devs there. Two of them used to come onto my server while it was down. They complimented my work and even questioned why I was not recruited to become a dev for EQEmu as they were that impressed. Which is irrelevant but just pointing out how my word is real about my source seeing how you felt the need to poke at my "zero" contributions.

Thats really the 1st post thats annoyed me, because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance.

Seeing how you failed to read what I posted and look through my old posts, I understand your "blantently (it

[Zern]

Aspirax wrote:
"I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose."

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?

Or is the "dish it out, but cannot take it" attitude supported by the community as well?

Not supported by the community Aspirax, it is taken into that context with a few "powered/status granted" users that are on a power trip, and one of them is posting in this topic rather a lot but yet has no specific title to his name. It is people like him that give the others bad names but again ... if the higher ups don't do anything about those they grant this 'status/power' who take it to the extreem ... it does reflect something upon them.

[a_Guest03]

Regardless of how it reflects, Hogie still runs the project. This isn't a democracy. There are leaders and there are peons, but everyone is below Hogie. Where image (the idea, not the person) doesn't matter, code does matter. Contributions matter. Complaints matter if Hogie or his choice lieutenants agree. All of this argument is for a moot point. Hogie can do as he pleases.

So let it be written. So let it be done.

Hogie is a good project leader, and the project is good for having him. I don't see any undue punishments being dealt, and I do see much reward.

If you would like to criticize the developer recruitment process and explain why it failed to entice you, I'm sure Hogie would like to listen, as that affects the project. His rudeness to a rude user does not affect the project.

[Acolyte]

First of all stop posting 3 posts when you only need one. Second of all:

Hmm, granted I didn't give out my source code, which I'll explain in a moment, perhaps you should search my old posts? I did help with code for the locked doors granted it was not my original code but I did touch it up *GASP* like you guys did with a base code. Wow surprising.

I found that to be pretty lol.

[Edgar1898]

Stop posting the same post over and over again. Once is ok but the same exact post more than once is not. I'm getting tired of deleting it.

[Acolyte]

Zern: How about you just stop posting entirely, I take my last reply back.

wait for some other snide remarks from fellow posters such as Acholyte, as he seems to make the most humorous posts.

And if you do continue to post please, it's ACOLYTE you illiterate piece of shit. Also, a little tip -- if you have an argument back it up with valid points... the whole "because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance," is so close to the truth it makes me cry.

[DaGrahamster]

Hogie, I think is a lil overprotective of the forums. That's fine with me. I know i would be too. However it seems the most-used sentence by him is: "Ok I'm locking this topic" or something of that fashion.

All these little ppl who want everything done for them, who bug the Devs and Hogie or other ppl, should be more respectful of everything they do and see that helping them with their promblems isnt the brightest part of their day.

So, basically I think Hogie was in the right, but that he does seem a lil too self-righteouss and soemtimes maybe gets a lil too drunk on his personal power by locking anything that hits the forums with less than god-like admiration for him.

People on both sides need to act a little more mature.

[a_Guest03]

I disagree with your comment that Hogie is too drunk with power, but I don't want to fight about it.

As far as abuse, you can head over to the hackersquest boards to get a taste of that. The forums are relatively friendly here.

I'm just a "luser" there.

[DeletedUser]

Im locking this topic:P

It has gotten way off base from what it was suppose to be. There is too much flames going back and forth, so im putting a stop to it now.

Im not even going to put a reply in here to anything about me from before that I hadn't answered, since it does not give a chance for them to respond.