Patching Idea

[gthang187]

well guys i dont see a need for a patcher. i say if you wanna work with old client and code. just install the regular eq and get the first server and just work on it.

also if its just so people that cant or forget to backup there client they will just haveta live with it untill the devs release a newer version of the server emu

there is my 2 cents as for the way you guys act on here no commit HAHA

[mikenune]

Originally Posted by UncleFester

No one would be the wiser is what I am saying.

I'd go ahead and rebut, but I've found the source of your problem.

So, if you killed someone after raping and torturing them. . .

There's nothing wrong with it since nobody found out?

You might want to thoroughly review your morals friend. And I'm not just saying that to try and sound superior, I'm saying that because, if you truly believe that, you need help. And, just like the whole intellectual property laws thing, I can say that with some authority. . .

[Charmy]

ouch mike bit of a harsh example, but anyway.
although i agree with alot of what you all said it still makes me think there is somthing odd

1) No Warez (No Discussion or Providing of Warez). Warez is any file that has been obtained without purchase from the company or a "legit" vendor, or without the sole permission of the owner, or company is considered illegal and is not permitted on these forums

in theory didn't we all attain our copies from "legit" vendors? although don't get me wrong i can see what you mean by this being an issue due to the fact we only did pay for one copy of the files and thus releaseing our copy would result in more than just one copy out there... so i understand what you mean... eh.. probably why i am not a lawyer...

well anyway, i suppose further discussion by me will only result in my ass getting whooped so with that..


I end

[UncleFester]

Sorry, but I am the most moral person on this board. Look into my past and you will see. Actually my entire life has been dedicated to helping others. This has nothing to do with a violent act which you previously stated, and has nothing to do with theft.

If it did, I would have nothing to do with it, nor would I even think of posting in this forum. If everything was as you stated, then this server software would not use SOE's client nor any of their content, nor any of their logo's or anythign else. Even though you may retort that EQEMU has nothing to do with, nor borrows anything form SOE, it does, and almost everything about it IS Everquest. Not sure how you can deny that.

Third. I've paid over $3000 American dollars to play EQ for the past five and a half years. Every time their system patches my client, I am paying for that patch. Morally I should have the right to give that file, or files plural to anyone who has also PAYED SOE to play EQ, Payed for botht eh CD's and the service.

I suppose you will never see my logic, just that same as I will never see how you could claim nothing in EQEMU uses anything from the SOE owned Everquest game.

This is my last post to this thread. I am trying to quit smoking and am on the edge of rage as is.

Fester

[Charmy]

Third. I've paid over $3000 American dollars to play EQ for the past five and a half years. Every time their system patches my client, I am paying for that patch. Morally I should have the right to give that file, or files plural to anyone who has also PAYED SOE to play EQ, Payed for botht eh CD's and the service.

i totaly agree however, the fact is, and i really truthfully just realized this, working with the files yourself i see absolutly no problem with, its the distribution of them to the others ont he boards, i mean you cannot play eqemu without having a full version of EQ, so its not like somone could come here and DL your old version files and play eq on their own LAN eqemu server... but the fact does remain that you may have paid 3k for your eq time, but thats for YOU. <cough> still doesn't take away from the fact i wish i had mine <cough> So although i admit i would like to see the files, i am sure there is some sentence in that eula sony paid some guy 10 grand to write, that says you can't distribute the files out to other people, and thus you would have to keep those files to yourself to remain "legal" as it were...

and with that...

I end

[Jezebell]

And how can you prove that the people you are patching the files to actually ever bought Everquest? It is possible they borrowed their friends copy or got a hold of Everquest.exe and downloaded all the files through Sony's patcher. You can't verify that.

[Charmy]

Hmm good point, well with that i suppose there isn't much more to debate =/.........Final Post for here =)

[Shaun11]

Originally Posted by freak88

ok... obviusly you dont know what your talking about. none of the shit is "borowed" they arnt using the grafix engine. the code is 100% writen by them, and if you have looked at it and knew anything about coding you would notice it isnt exactly some small project,\. as for the comment about half working, you obviusly have not been in the opensource scene to long. if people here that are capable of coding would contribute to this(oh yea people this is open source), then we will have some decent software, this project is hosted at sourceforge, dev changes can be submited via cvs and then the actual dev`s can look at it and aprove it for inclusion or whatever. that is the beuty of open source, never ending upgrades, evin without the core devteam someone else could pick this project back up at any time.

ok and now on to faster who thinks this project will fail cause there is no patcher to make his life easyer. why dont you take your 35 dollars and pay for sony`s live access if you dont like ours? why can you not read the manual`s and follow the fucking guides? if you did you would realise that a patcher is not needed. i bet your one of those people who buys a model car and puts it togather without directs. if you are... you dont belong in the opensource world.

this is our world... so get the fuck out

As you say if this game is 100% EQemu's code then where is the harm in holding the files up on a site? By the way i got my EQemu working again from a link on the EQemu website, news portion. It has the patch files that still work with version 5.7 dev 2 (or something like that).

[freak88]

Originally Posted by Shaun11

As you say if this game is 100% EQemu's code then where is the harm in holding the files up on a site? By the way i got my EQemu working again from a link on the EQemu website, news portion. It has the patch files that still work with version 5.7 dev 2 (or something like that).

ok now your just missing the point, the server you connect to is the emu`s code, the client you use(no one is forcing you to use this client, write your own if you dont like it) is sony`s, emu does not own the client, therefor they cannot distribute files from it, but they can tell you how to modify them.

[mikenune]

The EQEMu programs and source code (and MiniLogin.exe) have been created by the EQEMu devs and, as such, they CAN distribute those freely. The discussion here is about whether or not you can distribute the EQ client files (Everquest.exe, EQGame.exe, etc.).

Shockingly, most people here seem to be saying that they find nothing wrong with doing so.

What they don't seem to realize is that they ARE NOT PURCHASING THE RIGHTS TO THE PROGRAM. After you go out and buy a copy of Windows XP Home Edition, YOU DO NOT OWN THAT PROGRAM.

What you are doing is purchasing the right to USE THAT PROGRAM UNDER THE RESTRICTIONS AND GUIDELINES SET FORTH IN THE USER LICENSE.

In the case of EQ, you are purchasing the legal rights to use that program on a single computer. THE COMPANY STILL OWNS ALL RIGHTS TO THAT PROGRAM.

Many people seem to believe (as I did up until about 3 years ago) that, by providing software files/programs to others, you weren't hurting anybody because, unlike stealing a car, the original program is left exactly where it is. By giving it to someone else, you aren't causing anybody else to lose the ability to run the files/program. What you don't realize is that you are STILL BREAKING THE LAW because you are attempting - even if it's unintentional - to undermine the financial stability and intellectual property rights of that software's creator.

Now, some of you might still say "but the files that EQ patches don't matter because they don't work anymore. At least not in the way originally intended."

That doesn't matter either. Even if they are abandoned, they are still covered as "abandonware." Just because a program or file is no longer actively supported does not invalidate the fact that it is still owned by someone else. Just because a company no longer sells or provides a computer program or any part thereof, does not change the fact that it is still covered by it's original licensing and trademarks/pantents.

The EQEMu devs (well, actually "The Public" since it's GPL'd) STILL own the rights to the old/previous EQEMu versions. It doesn't matter that the current version is 0.5.7-DR2. That still doesn't erase their rights to version 0.5.5. Or even version 0.1.4.

Anyway, I don't seem to be getting very far here so this will be my last post on the matter.

P.S.
Charmy, that example was supposed to be harsh. It had to be so obviously wrong (both legally and morally) that nobody would be able to argue differently.

P.P.S.
UncleFester, using the EQ Client program to play on EQEMu servers isn't illegal because, as I stated earlier in this post, you are doing nothing more than using that software. You, by playing on EQEMu servers, are still obeying the lisence agreement.

By distributing files, however, you are doing more than just using the software. You are providing that software to others, something you have no right to do because, even though you have the legal right to use the software, you do not have the right to distribute it.

[eq_addict_08]

What I would like to see would be some sort of changelog of the Everquest client files. List which files changed from version 5.5 to 5.6 5.7, etc. That way I could have a fairly small directory with the changed files and a large directory with the zone files and whatnot. Then just make a batch file to copy whatever version I want to run into the main directory. Would eliminate need for multiple 2.5 gig dirs.. (May have to take some time and md5sum all of em and get something of the sort together)

[Charmy]

This is my final post on the matter but i had to get it in.

In the case of EQ, you are purchasing the legal rights to use that program on a single computer. THE COMPANY STILL OWNS ALL RIGHTS TO THAT PROGRAM.

Then in theory my installing on my laptop and desktop... i am breaking the law? i mean that is in a sense what you are saying, that is what microsoft ended up saying with windows xp, two computers... two copies... now i personally think that 100% bullshit, however, its the way it is.

and one quick question, you said that EQEmu uses no borrowed files?, that its all their original code.. but aren't the zone files made by SOE? and the Character model textures? and everything else included in those hundrededs of files taking up space in my eq folder? or do i no longer need them becuase eqemu has the ability to fun free of any "borrowed" files.... no i can't.

Now back to the topic, here is my question, what if i send my friend a copy of the pre patched files, fully aware that he has in fact purchased the full EQ client package, he has paid the company for these files, but he wants the older ones, ones which he did have before he ran the patch progam, this is breaking the law no? well what about if it was me who was at his house and patched his computer by mistake, i mean.. i have the files, it was my mistake, so if i did it, its like the files were mine at the time, so in theory i should be able to use them as i see fit right???? i know you can't tell if evey person on these boards has purchased their everquest from a "legit" source, but still given this situation am i still braking the law? even more so, what if I bought the copy of eq for my friend? i own that set of files, given they were in a different box.. and are now on a different computer. but they are still mine, so i should be able to use files from my other computer to "fix" this one right? according to what your saying this isn't right, i am breaking the law in using my own recources to fix an issue that i... well own..


P.S. reguardless of how harsh you ment it to sound, still not a very good example.

[freak88]

Originally Posted by Charmy

This is my final post on the matter but i had to get it in.

Then in theory my installing on my laptop and desktop... i am breaking the law? i mean that is in a sense what you are saying, that is what microsoft ended up saying with windows xp, two computers... two copies... now i personally think that 100% bullshit, however, its the way it is.

and one quick question, you said that EQEmu uses no borrowed files?, that its all their original code.. but aren't the zone files made by SOE? and the Character model textures? and everything else included in those hundrededs of files taking up space in my eq folder? or do i no longer need them becuase eqemu has the ability to fun free of any "borrowed" files.... no i can't.

Now back to the topic, here is my question, what if i send my friend a copy of the pre patched files, fully aware that he has in fact purchased the full EQ client package, he has paid the company for these files, but he wants the older ones, ones which he did have before he ran the patch progam, this is breaking the law no? well what about if it was me who was at his house and patched his computer by mistake, i mean.. i have the files, it was my mistake, so if i did it, its like the files were mine at the time, so in theory i should be able to use them as i see fit right???? i know you can't tell if evey person on these boards has purchased their everquest from a "legit" source, but still given this situation am i still braking the law? even more so, what if I bought the copy of eq for my friend? i own that set of files, given they were in a different box.. and are now on a different computer. but they are still mine, so i should be able to use files from my other computer to "fix" this one right? according to what your saying this isn't right, i am breaking the law in using my own recources to fix an issue that i... well own..


P.S. reguardless of how harsh you ment it to sound, still not a very good example.

the model files are client side, and the zone files are also client side, the server just knows where the zone lines are. as for using multiple comps. all sony says is one copy of everquest per person. not per comp. this is my last post in this forum as it is a pointless discussion. here is the facts

Distributing files provided for your use by sony is illegal.
disasembeling binary files provided for your use by sony is illegal
eqemu uses nothing that sony provides. as long as proper tradmark rights are givin it can be named eqemu.
and finaly, we are not all angels. 90% of us could care less what you do with your install of eq, just dont post it in the forums where it gives probable cause to soe.

[mikenune]

Originally Posted by Charmy

This is my final post on the matter but i had to get it in.

Then in theory my installing on my laptop and desktop... i am breaking the law? i mean that is in a sense what you are saying, that is what microsoft ended up saying with windows xp, two computers... two copies... now i personally think that 100% bullshit, however, its the way it is.

and one quick question, you said that EQEmu uses no borrowed files?, that its all their original code.. but aren't the zone files made by SOE? and the Character model textures? and everything else included in those hundrededs of files taking up space in my eq folder? or do i no longer need them becuase eqemu has the ability to fun free of any "borrowed" files.... no i can't.

Now back to the topic, here is my question, what if i send my friend a copy of the pre patched files, fully aware that he has in fact purchased the full EQ client package, he has paid the company for these files, but he wants the older ones, ones which he did have before he ran the patch progam, this is breaking the law no? well what about if it was me who was at his house and patched his computer by mistake, i mean.. i have the files, it was my mistake, so if i did it, its like the files were mine at the time, so in theory i should be able to use them as i see fit right???? i know you can't tell if evey person on these boards has purchased their everquest from a "legit" source, but still given this situation am i still braking the law? even more so, what if I bought the copy of eq for my friend? i own that set of files, given they were in a different box.. and are now on a different computer. but they are still mine, so i should be able to use files from my other computer to "fix" this one right? according to what your saying this isn't right, i am breaking the law in using my own recources to fix an issue that i... well own..


P.S. reguardless of how harsh you ment it to sound, still not a very good example.

Remember, the licenses are to USE software, not install it. That means that, as long as you're only using EQ (or Windows XP for that matter) on one computer at a time, then you aren't breaking the law. However, if you only had one copy of Windows XP and you used that on both your laptop and desktop computers AT THE SAME TIME (like at a LAN or something where you're allowing a friend to use your laptop) then you are breaking the law.

As for the example of EQEMu using the zone files, yes, they do use the zone files on your computer. However, they do not distribute those files with their program. If they did, they'd be breaking the law. However, if you have Everquest installed on your computer (legally, at least) then all you're doing by running EQEMu is USING those files. You aren't distributing them to the ppl that log into your server. Again, anyone who connects to your server must already have those files on their computer. Therefore it's legal.

And finally, as to your P.S. comment on the. . . relevance of my example, it is a perfect example. The ONLY difference (legally) between raping, torturing, then murdering someone and distributing files that you don't have the rights to is extremes. Yes, one is a violent crime and one is not, but they are still both illegal. And that's all that matters.

[RexChaos]

Originally Posted by Jezebell

And how can you prove that the people you are patching the files to actually ever bought Everquest? It is possible they borrowed their friends copy or got a hold of Everquest.exe and downloaded all the files through Sony's patcher. You can't verify that.

In that case, the harm has already been done. Not much they could do with just your files if they didn't have the game already.