The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.

[Melwin2]

Originally Posted by napalmsquirrel

:P

http://www.healthyplace.com/communit...ism/index.html

:lol:

This post is funny and relevant.

[Dekar2k4]

I have to give props to wiz who stated it clearly the magic has ended for most of us. I recently have gotton the drive to come back to EQ live, and not because I want to waste my money and be "Ghey" But because it was the first MMORPG, I played that I got deeply sucked into, it started with a converation back in 99 with a friend of mine. We were talking about random school things and the conversation soon came to Everquest.

"Wow my friend has a cool new game, and I've spent a few hours on it last night you should join", and slowly the convo enveloped 2 others at our table and soon we began our Everquest journey on Fennin Ro, one of the oldest servers created. It was fairly new back then and I can still remember laughing about previous nights adventures in class next morning talking about our chars camped out in that wierd new zone West Karana or how were hanging out in Aviaks roost.

Everquest for me was magical because of the people I met and the real life friends that played it, no matter what game I will get into EQ was part of my life for about 3 years. Never made it to 50 because I was restless and needed to start new classes everytime but i always found my highlevel fun with guildies or friends of mine that needed someone to play their ____ for a raid because they went off on a date or wherever. My main still resides at 49 Hum Pally somewhere in Karnors Castle (a ghost town most likely by now)

We talk about classic being the best but I see classic as the Trillogy and not just the three main Continents. Luclin broke Everquest in my opinion. With just Classic it would get monotonous and yes the leveling would be tedious as well as I recall all too well the origanal 1-2levels a day treck it sometime taking 4-5 hours just to level from 19-20 or 20-21. With the faster exp and new lands to explore in the Trillogy I think it would be worthwhile once again.

Luclin changed the world and it was the fulcrum of EQ development. There's no doubt in my mind that people would agree when I say Luclin turned the economy upside down, There was a point when Crystal Chitin was the uber shit next to Plane armor, and Quest armor. Spending a full month getting an entire set of this demi-godly armor (better then kunark's deepwater and the like) my once 25k (Ubah rich) armor fell to 5k in one day. Mino axe's became extinct, Ornate Rune blades, Arbitors combine, Nat's 2 hander all became common n00b twinks.

In an instant all hardwork dedicated was wiped out, once someone took a look at the moon and decided hmm a Nexus would be nice to have. EC tunnel deserted to the new found Bazaar. I know I mix a bit of emotion into my post but I think that without emotion of WOW I just recieved my Epic this is great, OMG plane armor, or even a simple omg camping Frogloks for my FBSS paid off jeez the 8 hour camp was hard but we got our belt!! congratz guys. You start to lose what EQ is about for alot of people. I was there when Fennin was decimated by the Ebay and Auction wars. Omg Cloak of flames still sells for 75$?? lets go raid naggy with whatever uber 52's we can muster (A direct quote form a TMO member) "Damn that runed bolster belt netted me a cool 125$" (Direct quote from a DoA member, these two being the best Guilds of the time on the server)

The powerlevel grind led to kill stealing, and clearing out a camp for your guild only with trains. If you weren't in "abc" Guild you weren't going to level quickly unless your class was good at soloing and if you weren't wearing "xyz" armor we don't want you in our party. Some of the newer expansions are foreign to me but from the revisisting of EQ and its Gui enchancements just shows me although the game may be geared toward the higher levels now they still haven't forgotton the perks that make the game enjoyable I like the link system to items, and the Link all for corpse looting, and the maps althogh new to me have proven useful. It's a Catch 22 in my eye for keeping people happy and keeping the community alive.

In order to keep a MMO a MMO you need to impliment grouping and interaction between players as a key role. Yet if you make it too group and interaction orientated then people complain you made it difficult as not everyone is friendly or available when you want them. Soloing to me is like playing a single person offline game. Sure you have to buy a new item from bazaar from someone but hell its not liek used to be where people had a convo and exchanged goods, its about the same as walking up to a NPC, except with occasional Haggling. Omg 10k for THAT! how about a 5k and my Sword of Mourning. Easy enogh but still not a MMO feeling. I welcome the new changes as im sure it will give me alot to do and although I'm still spending money monthly, its a hell of alot cheaper then spending 7 bucks at blockbuster 4 times a week trying to ammuse myself with a video game of my choice (even 25$ for an unlimited pass) or paying 50$ for an RPG I'm going to beat in 50-60hours = week 1/2 and im bored again. I'd like to say Congratz to the Dev's who's made EQEmu a great experiance, (although I still can't login to my own server after following 4 seperate guides.. *sigh* oh well) and Guys, don't lose the magic of a game, once you lose that you slowly lose the will to play.

[bbum]

I have to give props to wiz who stated it clearly the magic has ended for most of us.

the magic is gone period. it isnt around to experience anymore. there has not been a server that came close to emulating what everquest 1999 was. not soe or eqemulator server. (exept maybe that perma death server that had no expansion content omfg that was LEET -pvp and permadeath)

Luclin changed the world and it was the fulcrum of EQ development. There's no doubt in my mind that people would agree when I say Luclin turned the economy upside down, There was a point when Crystal Chitin was the uber shit next to Plane armor, and Quest armor. Spending a full month getting an entire set of this demi-godly armor (better then kunark's deepwater and the like) my once 25k (Ubah rich) armor fell to 5k in one day. Mino axe's became extinct, Ornate Rune blades, Arbitors combine, Nat's 2 hander all became common n00b twinks.

kunark, and velious are the worst offenders for trivializing old world content. i took a break from eq during luclin cause i got fed up so i dont know how bad that was, and im sure the addition of a supermarket instead of player trading helped kill it to. mino axe's went exticnt with kunark and velious. and those other items you mentioned are just some of the uber content that came with trilogy era and killed economy.

kunark came out and had content better than planar armor, which you also got exp while getting because its just alot of farming. does that make any sense? kunark having content greater than the planes? no. but they had to do it. they messed up. get my ragebringer was awsome, probly the coolest quest i did on my halfling. but now i know that epics were a bad idea, and shouldnt of ever come into existance, the original eq team admits the whole epic idea was a bad idea. but the eqlive team makes epic 2.0's lol. theres alot more reasons why i wouldnt want to see kunark and especially velious on a server. my best times of eq are probly during the velious era, but that doesnt mean i think it was the best way to go.

i wont even go into why eq99 > custom-eqemuserver02

[shadowchaser]

Here is my take: not that we really need to see another.
I play on WR and it is enjoyable, great work Wiz. It is well thought out and put together. I feel comfortable saying it is better than the eq i left at the release of Luclin. <meaning no disrespect: that aint hard>
I think in order to undersand why i would like to see a EQEmu server limited to Original, Kunark and Velious, you would need to know why i left.
I did not leave EQ because i got bored, or because i didnt find end game content. I left because ever time i turned around a new release made everything i had wokred long and hard to acquire... dogshit. And even though i was in one of the oldest guilds on Mith Marr, we were a tight group of friends that didnt want to accept assholes into the guild. Needless to say as the devs wrote more and more to the HUGE groups needed to kill things and the uber items, we lost the ability to compete with open admission 'own the spawn' guilds.
I loved the game, i never lost interest in the 'classic' areas, i am not a power gamer. I was one of the few wizards who went on Hate raids and i love the place <nothign much for me but still fun>

I am looking for a classic server so i can go have the fun i once did, so i can get the items i once had and not have to worry that any amount of work i do will mean a waste of time NEXT expansion.

To be able to get to a mob, no matter how insignificant or important and not sit on a list for days, or have to catch UBER GUILD002 sleeping so i can get a spawn.

I realize that there wouldnt be a huge amount of ppl out there that would play on an EQclassic server. I have hated the mention of SOE or EQ for years. I can name 4 others who were equally pissed off and quit the same time i did for similar reasons. I mentioned EQEmu and got yelled at, but when i explained that sony wouldnt be at the helm and we could make the content static they listened. We want to play the game to its fullest extent before the game went to the dogs, and the spawns got impossible, before the items got rediculous. I think the people who played through all the ludicrous shit would be totally disillusioned and unable to play a classic server.

I understand both sides of this issue, and i hope perhaps i have explained myself well enough to make some sense.

[bbum]

lets start this argument again where i left off.

You said:

Quote:

if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.


Direct attrition.

You then said:

Quote:
W_T_F?!?!?!? what do you want me to say!??! what point did you back up with logic?? i dont see a fucking point. all i said was a pre-kunark server now would be just as fun as pre-kunark then, unless you were a noob then and want to be a noob again for some reason, because then it wont work, but even so an old world server is the best it can get,


I assumed you didn't just drift off completely and start talking about your general consensus. I guess that was wrong.

i still dont know wtf your takling about wiz. wtf is a general consensus?

if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.

there is nothing wrong with that statement. all it says is that eq99 today would be just as fun now as it was then. and thats true. no one thinks eq99 is the best mmorpg because they were a newb. that argument has been officaly pwned.

your point that pre-kunark eq cannot return does not work. if your point is that WR is bettre than eq99 or eq99 doesnt have enough content or is to hard, i can listen to that

[Melwin]

Originally Posted by bbum

lets start this argument again where i left off.

i still dont know wtf your takling about wiz. wtf is a general consensus?

there is nothing wrong with that statement. all it says is that eq99 today would be just as fun now as it was then. and thats true. no one thinks eq99 is the best mmorpg because they were a newb. that argument has been officaly pwned.

your point that pre-kunark eq cannot return does not work. if your point is that WR is bettre than eq99 or eq99 doesnt have enough content or is to hard, i can listen to that

"General consensus" means general opinion or agreement.

Your statement is false. I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.

So no, that argument hasn't "officially been pwned".

[Wiz]

Give it up, bbum.

[bbum]

I would hate EQ of '99 by today's standards, because it simply doesn't live up to them. In '99, EQ of '99 was awesome, but that's no longer the case.

why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.

you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by bbum

why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.

you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.

You're a retard rehashing points that have been pulverized again and again and again, you haven't used a single shred of logic in explaining how to deal with the issues that were brought up and failed to explain how the vast majority seemed to agree with the original points when your only real argument was "I'm right and you're wrong", and constantly bringing in WR which wasn't even mentioned as superior or inferior by anyone except your dumb ass.

Give it up while you're behind. In fact, you're the kind of behind that a person with no legs in a ten-mile marathon being harrassed by a pack of wild dogs while God constantly raises new mountain chains in his path and flaws in the space-time continuum makes him move backwards would exhibit.

Shit, you'd even be behind him.

[Melwin]

Originally Posted by bbum

why is that no longer the case.. because you thing better things have come out? well they havent. todays standards are asstastic. no mmorpg's or eqemu servers of todays standards match what eq was in 99.. there has not been one hardcore quest heavy class based mmorpg since eq99. pre kunark would be just as fun now as it was then. pre kunark was not awsome because it was '99.

you guys give up. theres no reason an eq classic server can not work. all you have left to argue over is if eq99 < your eqemu server. which is why yu made this thread in the first place.

I would just not enjoy '99 EQ anymore, because I've already been there. It's not fun anymore. You can't say whether "better" things have come out or not, because it's a subjective matter.

Either way, this thread is ready for a lock. I see you like to repeatedly run your head against the concrete wall, but eventually the wall will come falling down and then we'd be out a wall on these forums.

Thread will be locked once you post your reply.

[Ace]

Think about how fun Pong was to play back in the day. We'd all play Pong and Pacman for hours on end on our Atari 2600's.

How long do you think you could play Pong now? As long as you played Everquest?

It is human nature to make past experiences fantastical and to romanticize them to the point wanting to recreate them. Unfortunately, you will find that your dreams will become boring quickly. The problem with knowing this, is that you'll never believe it until you try it out yourself.

Good luck.

[bbum]

sorry ace, you loose. do you really think the reason we believe eq99 is superior is because we were new to everquest? you just dont realise how much crap eqlive is compared to 99. as i said a few posts before, that arguement is offically pwned. the reason eq99 would be just as fun now is because nothing better has come around. mmorpg's have not advanced from pre luclin eq. and I DONT FUCKING SAY THAT BECAUSE I WAS A N00B TO EQ. THAT IS NOT WHY ANYONE THINKS EQ99 IS SUPERIOR. NO ONE POST THAT STUPID SHIT EVER AGAIN PLZ KK TNX

before you lock this thread i will organise each point wiz made in this entire thread and my response to them.

1) this is wiz's strongest and main point: I am a dumbass. its his main reason that im wrong. he uses it because i have owned every point he has tried to make.

2) the reason we want an eqclassic server is because we strive for our frist taste of eq and want to get lost in neriak again.
my response: no we dont. we believe eq99 is superior and being a noob has nothing todo with it. and infact most of us were not newbs in 99 and had been playing online games for years.

3)you cant make the feeling of something new with something old.
my response: good thing were not trying to make the feeling of something new. the feeling of something new is not the reason we feel eq99 is superior.

4)allakazam ruins eq classic content
my response: i have never known an eq without spoiler info. if that breaks an mmorpg there is no hope left for an mmorpg to ever please you again. even wr has its own mini allakazam.

5)not enuf content in eq classic,
my response: ok, you can get away with this one.. how much content eq classic has is how much is has, nothin to argue here

6)eq classic is to challenging.
my response: cant argue with you here. it is a challenge not a mindless grind, i wont argue if thats what people want or not.

thats it.. one last question wiz.. do you only think wr is superior because its new content? or do you think it is just superior to eq classic in general? would you have played eq if WR was released in 99 instead of what we got?

[Raddiux]

Originally Posted by Ace

Think about how fun Pong was to play back in the day. We'd all play Pong and Pacman for hours on end on our Atari 2600's.

How long do you think you could play Pong now? As long as you played Everquest?

It is human nature to make past experiences fantastical and to romanticize them to the point wanting to recreate them. Unfortunately, you will find that your dreams will become boring quickly. The problem with knowing this, is that you'll never believe it until you try it out yourself.

Good luck.

I can't speak for Pong and Pacman (i'm not that old), but recently me and my friends started playing Mario Bros (the original arcade version) on MAME, and we have just as much fun with it now as we did like 16 years ago. I can pick up old games like Megaman, TMNT, or whatnot, and still find them enjoyable. I still find DOOM just as fun as it was 10 years ago. Hell, I find it better than Doom3 (though thats for a different thread all-together).

I don't believe the issue with EQ is that its old and outdated. I think the problem is that we've all just played the game to death. There is only so long you can eat that delicious chocolate cake before you get sick of it.

With that said, I think recreating classic EQ is still something that can be a lot of fun and popular. There are tons of people out there who have no interest in EQ's current fascination with raids and uber loot, and simply want that oldschool feeling of roleplaying in a fantasy world back. And there are even more who have never even played EQ, and might find EQ's current 5 continents + 1 moon + 20 planes + lost dungeons + pirate gnomes + 65 levels + 2659348442 AA points + god knows what else they come up with, just a bit overwhelming. There is still life left in ClassicEQ - though just not for most of us.

Posted: 07-01-2004 03:40 AM Post subject: The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.

Keep movin nothing to see here, let him RIP please

[CHowell2005]

GIVE ME CANCER NOW GOD.....for the sake of sweet mother mary and joseph can we not just be like hey i like classic eq and hey i dont.....hey lets hug....hey lets go make out.....hey lets go #^&$......alright you guys dont have to go that far...but if you do take pictures....seriously though...just reading this made me angry at everyone who posted an arguement here, everyone should go back and read how asanine you have been...youd kick yourself in the nuts.....MELWIN PLEASE DECLARE THAT LAW OF YOURS AND LAY DOWN SOME DR PHIL GOODNESS