Some pets in Plane of Sky

[cavedude]

Originally Posted by Secrets

http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?h...e%5C.com&l=413

Stuff like that. No reason for having that AA hardcoded like that other than to have it on PEQ working with the PEQ Database, which is why a few of the IRC folks are making fun of the project and calling it PEQEmulator, because, it is essentially becoming properitary to PEQ.

I would much rather it have some kind of space we can put these AAs in, and build up ourselves and have ProjectEQ as a branch on SVN instead of it being the main code. That's just my 2 cents.

Wrong, try again. The changes in the code are made first and THEN ProjectEQ changes its database to make it compatible, just like everybody else. I have no fucking clue why people claim PEQ is taking over EQEmu but please for my sanity stop it! We only handle the DB and quests, and ultimately are at the mercy of whatever code is put into SVN!

[Secrets]

Originally Posted by cavedude

Wrong, try again. The changes in the code are made first and THEN ProjectEQ changes its database to make it compatible, just like everybody else. I have no fucking clue why people claim PEQ is taking over EQEmu but please for my sanity stop it! We only handle the DB and quests, and ultimately are at the mercy of whatever code is put into SVN!

No idea on why they think that; I never claimed it, just people on IRC are thinking that. Sorry if I offended you, but it's just the IRC crowd presently that are thinking that (and it's because of the fact that people implement the AAs hardcoded in code, amongst other things. I know you guys are innocent bystanders.)

I know we are talking about code that gets in, and most of that is related to making the server work torwards live, which ironically is what PEQ is doing database wise. I just think the *code* needs to take a different direction than it currently is, not the database and quests.

I seriously like the idea of emulating live. It's a wonderful idea. I just don't want this project to *only* do that.

[Congdar]

Webpage error details

User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; WOW64; Trident/4.0; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.5.21022; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET CLR 3.0.30618)
Timestamp: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:12:31 UTC


Message: Not implemented

Line: 277
Char: 259
Code: 0
URI: http://www.google.com/codesearch/js/com.google.codesearch.CachedFile/312B5123B5D57B37203A9F425BE4F703.cache.js

Must be ie8... it says that link sucks.

[cavedude]

Originally Posted by Secrets

No idea on why they think that; I never claimed it, just people on IRC are thinking that. Sorry if I offended you, but it's just the IRC crowd presently that are thinking that (and it's because of the fact that people implement the AAs hardcoded in code, amongst other things. I know you guys are innocent bystanders.)

I know we are talking about code that gets in, and most of that is related to making the server work torwards live, which ironically is what PEQ is doing database wise. I just think the *code* needs to take a different direction than it currently is, not the database and quests.

I seriously like the idea of emulating live. It's a wonderful idea. I just don't want this project to *only* do that.

Sorry if I overreacted. Not a great day here for me, and I don't like people misusing the PEQ name.

AAs and spells, you know I would love to see a database or script based system for those, so the effects can be changed on the fly. I think EQ2Emu has a system like that using LUA and it could be pretty nifty. But, the thing is somebody has to write it! That's all it takes, really.

As for the code, I agree that it should be customizable but not to the point where the main focus of this project (emulating EverQuest) is lost. I think the community is doing a great deal to allow this. We have bots in the code, TONS of rules, and just about everything is open source around here allowing anybody to change stuff as they wish. If just emulating EverQuest was what happens here, then we would have no need for rules, and things like the bots would never ever see SVN.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by cavedude

As for the code, I agree that it should be customizable but not to the point where the main focus of this project (emulating EverQuest) is lost. .

Cavedude, Emulating Everquest so it allows us to play everquest is the goal of everyone here. The diffirence is HOW we want to play everquest.
The main purpose of the server code is to allow us utilize the client resourses - such as the game engine and graphics. Everything else is secondary.

MANY people who have quit EQ and now here is because they could not stand the way SONY was handlign things INCLUDING how they handled the content given resources they have.

Why did project started in the first place? Cuase someone was not happy with the original.

Look which servers have top popularity among emu players:

Stormhaven - custom content
Scars of Amerous - custom content
Raid Addicts - very custom content
Shards of Delaya - ok given not part of this community- but LARGEST population of any eq-emulation - ultra custom content

Do people realy want to play the same old game over and over and over, the same zones and kill the same exact orc pawn in crushbone for zillionth time?

Think why games like StarCrat and warCraft 3 have outlived themselves? Cuase they came with EDITORS so powerful that allowed people to make their game and complitly diffirent from original.
If those game would not have those editors - they would die out and be forgotten in 5-6 month after release once the hype was over - which has happened with every other game in history.
Learn from this lesson.

Now think what would have happened if SONy had never made Kunark expansion - most of peopel here would never even herd of eq1 cuase it would have been long dead and forgotten.
And the only reason eq1 stil active today (despite loosing majority of its population when eq2/wow came out) - is cuase sony keeps poping out NEW content every 8 month.

Essentialy what I want to do - is to give people NEW content (and I am sure that MANY custom server devs want the same thing), but if dreadful spirit of "how things were on live" keeps hanging around, I will eventualy fail.

Now If we could please get back to the original topic- I want to once again point out that hardcoding somethign like this (pets in Sky) is like hardcoding "no leviation" for dungeons. The feature is a "zone content" - and not a part of the global gameplay, and should be handled via zone script. And I think that Trev has shown as a direction of how to do it.

Think about dozens of things a user of the Emu WON'T be able to do if this fetaure is hard coded, just becuase it was one little special on LIVE.
Yet it will ruin the options of doing what we want with the game for the rest of us.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by Congdar

What other things would you like to have a rule to turn off?

if I actualy start makign a list- it may get sizeable
Few months ago we allready had a discussion about hard coded weapon bonus dmg
Overall things like unique AA handling, build-in racial/class bonuses, combat formulas- all that should be controllable from DB rather than sit inside the source code. (thankfuly as of recent times many thinngs are and it pleases me)

BUt I am always on guard versus evil atempts at hard coding

[trevius]

While I see points on both sides of the argument, I still think PEQ and EQLive should be the priority for code in EQEmu. Custom servers should still be custom EQ servers, and the more generic the server gets, the more this project becomes like a generic MMO engine. If that is what you want, you can get some for free or for a decent price that can be as general or specific as you want them.

I think we currently give plenty of customization options, but within reason. The more and more options that get added, the harder and harder the source is going to get to manage and the more database hits you will be getting for rule checks and what-not, which could build up to be some serious performance hits. This project wasn't designed from the ground up to be a generic MMO server, so it would take almost a complete rewrite to make it into one. I think we need to pick and chose our battles for customization. Anything within reason will not be turned down. But at the same time, I don't want to see 1000+ rules ever, and if ChaosSlayer had his way evertime, we would already be exceeding that amount :P

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by trevius

Anything within reason will not be turned down. But at the same time, I don't want to see 1000+ rules ever, and if ChaosSlayer had his way evertime, we would already be exceeding that amount :P

oh Trev don't scare people off like that. I think i REALY stick out for custom rule like total of 2 times before

In in this specific case with Sky - I am VERY firm- the feature which about to be implemented feels like a zone script event and should realy be handled as one.
Afterall- we didn't hardcoded "no levitation" into all the dungeons - there was better way around which didn't step on anyones toes

The major diffirent betwin doing everything LIVE way and doing it the custom way is that, if its done the LIVE way - this feature is dead locked for all eternity. If its done custom way - you can stil produce same result as LIVE, but it also gives FREEDOM to everyone of doing it difirently or not doing at all.

Customization - is freedom for everyone. LIVE- only benefits LIVE